Interesting idea for fighting high gas prices

[CBulla]

Here is the alternative that I am going to work on with my boat. I'm already looking for a suitable diesel that will fit my boat - Biodiesel

 

[scubadiverjunkie]

Do you really think this is a supply & Demand issue? I can tell you this - I trade commodities briefly from Sep 03 to Feb 04 - and back in Nov/Dec 03 Crude was trading at roughly $27-28/bb - that was before winter really hit the NE and the usage of heating oil (by-product of the crude) went up (millions of home & factories still use the H/O) - crude actually went down a little. OPEC decided at the DEC meeting that they would not increase output unless the Crude prices flirted with the $30-31/bb range. The DOE (Department of Energy) reports that come out every Wednesday and show all oil levels from Crude to all distillates showed that we had adequate stocks for the winter and going into spring and that we need not worry about suppl problems. I can attest to the fact that our stocks of Crude and distillates were IN FACT a little above last years supply numbers. Now, if you don't know the way to make $$ in commodities is to capitalize on a dramatic imbalance between supply and demand - this was not the case and remains that this is not the case. The oil production from OPEC has not decreased and it has not increased. This is a matter of all following suit to create the appearance of a shortage and supply factors to create that symbiosis of SUPPLY AND DEMAND factors and in effect create that imbalance. This is collectively know as price gouging. They have already called for the oil companies and such to open their books and surrender all their production information (importing, refining, production, etc & all associated costs inolved). I see the info that comes across and see the charts of oil (crude & distillates) along with the DOE reports weekly. Now - there has been no major shifts or changes in the oil production since the NOV/DEC period to warrant this rapid increase - what we are witnessing people is the creation of the proven theory (and money generating) policy of SUPPLY/DEMAND that did not exist only a short few months ago. Welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism.....

 

[CBulla]

Lets not forget that OPEC is not the only supplier and western Europe and North America are not the only buyers. Venezuala is not in the best of shape governmentally right now - a place that the US purchaced heavily from until recently. From the purchasers perspective we are competing with China in a big way, more than we ever have. India has also started a large boon of growth as companies invest there as an "offshore" alternative.

Something else to think about is that most synthetic polymer materials are made from petroleum byproducts and used in everthing from polyester clothing to vinyl siding on homes to the plastic film on compact-disc covers. These are all products made over seas from the same petrolium we are vying to buy for our cars.

We dont really touch our own oil reserves for the simple fact that it really costs more to drill our own oil than it does to import it. The national reserves are set aside for military use in the event that something catastrophic occurs, without which the vehicles and aircraft would have no lasting fuel source.

I'm not going to get into the circular debate about "oil", just presenting some other factors to think about. Do I agree with it all - not really. My solution is to find alternative ideas.

 

[FredT]

Reduce demand and build more refineries.

Joe

We have spent the last 20 years tearing down refineries in the US due to the insane rules of the Clean Air Act as interpreted by the EPA.

The liberals in Congress, mostly from the least and left coast, built this trap for us. I hear many of them whining about the results but not many accepting the responsibility for making the problem or ANY of them proposing a realistic solution.

Step one would be to admit that we need to develop domestic energy supplies wherever and in whatever way we can. Step 2 would be to cause those states who refuse to develop any viable energy source inside their borders or off their coast to pay a NIMBY "separation" tax to those states producing energy. Something about 3X the price of the BTU equivalent in oil for all energy (natural gas, electric, coal, or petroleum products) crossing their borders should get them over the NIMBY problem.

Going back to horses would not work, unless of course all paved and dirt roads in the US were turned back into pasture to provide fuel for them. The Sanitation issues alone involved in using horses in cities over 100,000 would force abandonment of the metropolitian areas. Horses are NOT an efficient converter of biomass into energy!

FT

 

[archman]

I believe most, if not all of Venezuela's oil exports went to us, at least until recently. If there wasn't so much Middle East tunnel vision in the media right now, Venezuela's rather appalling problems would be better realized to the American public. Their current government has been teetering towards civil war the last year or so, and the incumbent president is hostile towards U.S. and other international scrutiny. As their oil makes up a hefty fraction of U.S. imports, supply concerns from them carry a great deal of political weight.

On a different note, does anyone know when those new hybrid Ford Escape's are coming out? I've heard "this summer" so much I can whistle a tune out of it. Summer started last month here in Texas.

 

[scubadiverjunkie]

Lets not forget that OPEC is not the only supplier and western Europe and North America are not the only buyers. Venezuala is not in the best of shape governmentally right now - a place that the US purchaced heavily from until recently. From the purchasers perspective we are competing with China in a big way, more than we ever have. India has also started a large boon of growth as companies invest there as an "offshore" alternative.

Something else to think about is that most synthetic polymer materials are made from petroleum byproducts and used in everthing from polyester clothing to vinyl siding on homes to the plastic film on compact-disc covers. These are all products made over seas from the same petrolium we are vying to buy for our cars.

I'm not going to get into the circular debate about "oil", just presenting some other factors to think about.

I agree 100% but also keep in mind that 80% is supplied by OPEC and in fact you would need an increase in the usage of the polymer materials you speak of to have an adverse effect on the supply. Also Venezuela is also a member - Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) members include Algeria, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela.

this: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/opec.html
will give some good information and has some good links to read up about the way this all going down.

They will continue to maximize their profits while they can. I am not buying into the fabricated supply issue.


That's just my opinion though.....

 

[FredT]

Take a real close hard look at the hybrids, and not from info the EPA is spouting.
Cost per mile is nowhere near as good as it first looks unless you are driving ONLY in very short hop city traffic, in a climate that does not require air conditioning in the vehicle. Be sure to factor in the fact that the EPA numbers seem to be about 50% off for these cars, and a battery change every 3 to 5 years.

FT

 

[archman]

Cost per mile is nowhere near as good as it first looks unless you are driving ONLY in very short hop city traffic, in a climate that does not require air conditioning in the vehicle. Be sure to factor in the fact that the EPA numbers seem to be about 50% off for these cars, and a battery change every 3 to 5 years.
FT

Yes, I believe it is fairly well disseminated that hybrids are best utilized in cities, where a lot of braking is involved to recharge the batteries. That's where most of the buyer interest is, fortunately, and the bulk of the U.S. population. >41,000 hyrbids operated now in the U.S., and Toyota is planning on shipping 47,000 Prius models this year alone from its Asia assembly line. There were expecting to ship only 37,000 I believe, but consumer demand is rising much faster than expected. Even so, hybrid purchases still make up far less than 1% of vehicle sales in the U.S.; wonder what'll happen when the full-size hybrids come out. That's where the technology is expected to bear the greatest fuel economy, not with these piddly little compacts and subcompacts.

The battery replacement issue I believe is also known to purchasers. Makes sense, they get a lot of use. Folks that pony up for new technologies usually are willing to shell out more cash to maintain them. They're a liberal bunch, generally speaking.

Air conditioning use... ya' got me there Fred. Haven't heard squat about that from the reviews. That sucks power like there's no tomorrow. The majority of currently owned hybrids are in California, however. Maybe the market will stay relatively confined to less humid and muggy regions. Southern culture shirks from "innovation" anyhow... works out just fine in many cases.

 

[BIGSAGE136]

Step 1) Google search...PEAK OIL

Step 2

Answer this question...What is the total amount of crude left on the planet? Hint (by the grace of God)... 800 billion barrels

Answer this question...How many barrels of cude does just the USA use per day! Hint (17 million barrrels)

Answer this question...What percentage of a barrel of crude is used in driving? Hint 45%

Do the math. Forget the myths.

Make serious plans.

 

[FredT]

Air conditioning use... ya' got me there Fred. Haven't heard squat about that from the reviews. That sucks power like there's no tomorrow. The majority of currently owned hybrids are in California, however. Maybe the market will stay relatively confined to less humid and muggy regions. Southern culture shirks from "innovation" anyhow... works out just fine in many cases.

Turn on the AC and the hydrocarbon engine runs 100% of the time. That drives your mileage into the dirt.

FT