Interesting air management...

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jagfish

The man behind the fish
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Scuba Instructor
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Location
Kanagawa and Florida
# of dives
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Dove with a huge group of students from my univesity today, my first dive with the scuba club. Like most club activities here in Japan, it was very organized and ritualized, and had lots of meetings. I was ready to dive at 8 am, but we had to have another 2 hours of briefings, checks, maps.

I got popped onto the back end of a group of 4, two folks with about 90 dives, two folks with about 20-30. In terms of total dives, dives on this site, and diving in different situations, I was certainly more experienced, but I was their guest, so I was kinda hanging back and getting a feel for how this was all working. I had dove the site about 30 times before, conditions were almost dead calm, shore entry, 63 degree water, vis about 30 feet, zero current.

They were going to engage in a navigation exercise, and I was more or less observing. One strict rule the club has is that if anyone gets to 50 bar, they have to stop using that tank (which I assumed meant that they had to surface). Maybe you see where this might go...

Anyway, on dive one, the leader was hopelessly off course, but I was enjoying the spring bloom of juvenile fish. Everyone was making regular air checks, which was good. One kid was drastically overweight, which is amazing, because he was only wearing 4 pounds, wearing a 5 mm wetsuit. He only weights about 75 pounds I'd say, thin as a rail.

Well, I know he is going to be the first to gas down, struggling with his boyancy. When he hits 50 bar he tells me. I give him the surface signal, which would mean we would have about a 100 yard swim in calm water to the exit. Well, his buddy comes along and signals that she has 150 bar left, and she wants to give him her octopus. She only weighs about 70 pounds and lungs like a bird, pretty nice bouancy as well. Anyway, we are about 25 or 30 feet down, I look puzzled and say no and give the up signal again, but the other buddy pair comes and supports the octopus option, so I just back off because they seem like they have a system for this that I was not aware of. Plus, I was morbidly curious.

They make most of the awkward swim back, then both have to surface, me on their tail, about 30 yards to the exit, short swim on surface afterwards. I wanted him to do a boyancy check with his near empty tank, but he was called in for the after dive briefing (as was I).

In the debriefing, I was told by the senior in the group that because of the waves, it was safer to go back under water. I looked long and hard out over the near perfect calm, "What wave were you referring to...?" Never really got a straight answer on it, and of course, language barrier had an effect. I supported his idea of air sharing if the conditions were rough, or to escape a surface current, etc, but no way I would go out of my way to share air with that overweighted bottom-stomper if there were another reasonable option.

So for the second dive, I gave the heads up to all in my group, "You or I hit 50 bar and we go to the surface."

JAG
 
How deep was the dive?

If you're shallow 50 bar in an Al 80 may have been plenty to ge the hundred years back to shore with adequate reserves left. I'd rather go back under water if I can.

Provided the diver has adequate gas to get 2 people to the surface in their own tank (meaning that either divers gas cna be used to end the dive if need be) I don't see the problem with sharing air a bit to get closer to shore either as long as both divers are comfortable with it.

Of course it isn't the best planning. If you want to get back to the entry point and 750 psi is your "rock bottom" or ascent pressure, then you should be turning the dive at like 1875 psi so you get back with rock bottom remaining right? Of course if ending the dive in shallow water you might use a rock bottom of only 500 psi. I don't like to use anything less because the gauge might be off a little.

If the plan is to surface any old place then a gas plan as simple as ascendiong at rock bottom is fine as long as the rock bottom is appropriate for the depth.
 
MikeFerrara:
If the plan is to surface any old place then a gas plan as simple as ascendiong at rock bottom is fine as long as the rock bottom is appropriate for the depth.

It must have been a muddy bottom Mike! :eyebrow:
 
hey,

can't say there's anything disagreeable about your statements. What agency was it? and where did you dive? Izu?
Nice story. :wink:

Ramón
 
cancun mark:
It must have been a muddy bottom Mike! :eyebrow:

Yep. Some placxes just don't have a rock bottom.
 
The only issue I see here is that there was a rule to finish a dive when one member of a group uses air down to a certain pressure. This rule was violated.

Often I have dived with a buddy and he has blown his tank well before me. Sometimes I go through my air first. Either way, the dive is finished. It is ascend, safety stop, surface, and back on to the boat. Period.

FWIW, what can one see/do while sharing one tank, besides s*x or ascending?
 
garyfotodiver:
FWIW, what can one see/do while sharing one tank, besides s*x or ascending?

I guess you see the same things you would if you weren't sharing air.
 
garyfotodiver:
The only issue I see here is that there was a rule to finish a dive when one member of a group uses air down to a certain pressure. This rule was violated.

Often I have dived with a buddy and he has blown his tank well before me. Sometimes I go through my air first. Either way, the dive is finished. It is ascend, safety stop, surface, and back on to the boat. Period.

FWIW, what can one see/do while sharing one tank, besides s*x or ascending?


They didn't break any rule. The rule was that at 50bar, they stopped using that tank, not end the dive. Jag's issue was that they used air sharing to continue the dive underwater (without breaking the 50 bar rule) when there were no prevailing surface conditions to make that a better alternative. Maybe they just like to practice a lot, seems like the hoover is a regular in the group.

There are probably other factors that influenced their choice as well. Being able to get closer to their exit point by sharing air before surfacing would surely keep them from loosing face as badly.

Darlene
 
Maybe I'm stupid, but in 1970 I learned that when two divers have to share air, the dive ends. So I asked my daughter, who certified last year. I showed her the first post, and she was incredulous. It seems that she was taught the same thing as I.

Since I think better in psi, 50 bar = 735psi. The air-sharee had three times that, but now that the air is shared, each diver has about 1100psi available. Still rather low to do anything but surface, IMO. About the surface swim, that's what snorkels are used for.

Darlene's insightful mention of losing face is very well noted. However, if swimming on the surface is a lose-face situation, what about not managing your air to get back to the exit before you can't use that tank anymore?
 
garyfotodiver:
Maybe I'm stupid, but in 1970 I learned that when two divers have to share air, the dive ends. So I asked my daughter, who certified last year. I showed her the first post, and she was incredulous. It seems that she was taught the same thing as I.

Back in the 70s we were buddy breathing, of course the dive ended!

I see nothing wrong with the way they handled the situation (and I've ended one dive the same way). Both divers had adequate air for air sharing to the surface. Both had their own air source should they beome separated. Underwater swims are often safer, less exertion, and the air sharing is good practice for an emergency situation.

What was the terrible risk??

Ralph
 

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