Integrated 2nd vs. Octo....Any Input?

[ptyx]

My 2 inches of worm:

The main reason (but not the only one) I stopped considering integrated octos is the consequence of a failure on a dive cruise.

With a standard setup, if you have a regulator issue, there are usually a couple spares lying around. If you have a BC issue, it gets trickier - but you might find one as well or might be able to repair. It's not perfect, but you can still dive.

With an integrated octo, it gets more complicated. Octo failure means you need to replace the BC. BC failure means you need to find a reg as well. If your integrated system has a special 'high flow' MP hose, you're looking at one more dependency. And I'd try repairing a regular inflator - but I don't have the skills/training to mess with an integrated octo.

So if anything bad happen, the chances you find spares to borrow aren't as good - and even if there are some you're looking at swapping most of your gear instead of just the broken part. To me, the risk of missing dives because of that just isn't worth the convenience/streamlining factor - especially compared to a necklace style octo setup.

Obviously, if you always dive from shore or on day trips - this aspect doesn't matter...

 

[ONESPEED]

People tend to get pretty polarized in these threads

Once you separate reality from dogma, there are places and times where they make sense. Integrated inflators/octos for example make sense in some rebreather configurations. I also used to use one on my pretty fish dive travel plate and wing as the need for only 3 hoses total allowed for extremely clean hose routing - but it also required a longer inflator hose than I prefer, so it was not perfect.

And I can say as a tech I frequently see octos that are non functional come in for annual service where the owner was not aware they were non functional. I have never seen that with an Air 2, so one "pro" is the Air 2 does not get ignored, get used and flushed on every dive and is quite frankly more likely to work for the average diver who regards gear maintenence as taking the reg off the tank and throwing it in the dive bag.

Further, as a tech, I can state with confidence that the "more failure points" issue is also not the case - you eliminate a hose, an inlet fitting and an inlet fitting o-ring with the combination of inflator and octo. In most, the inflators are balanced, simple and very well designed, while the second stage portion is very similar to a near bullet proof R290 style unbalanced dual adjustment downstream designs usually used for recreational octos. In a word, an Air 2 will be more relaible than a cheap octo and cheap inflator that together cost as much.

Now, I also agree with Tomikp that a long hose/bungee backup makes sense (although that configuration predates DIR by nearly two decades) and is the way to go for most divers, But his logic is flawed as an Air 2 user could also cite 35 years of use to prove it works as it, like the long hose primary reg, also came into use in the mid 1970's

Most importantly however, the OP pretty much outlines the reason why an Air 2 is not right for him:

"Because what I buy depends on what I want to get "out" of diving, I want to do wreck dives, deep diving, as well as hunting/bug catching and just "regular" scuba."

An integrated inflator/octo is not going to be well suited to technical diving, where a long hose and bungeed octo has become the gold standard for that activity.

Good lord, that was a lot to weed through to establish that you're a tech and an AirII is not the correct choice for the OP.

 

[ryanaellis]

First, I wanted to apologize for opening the proverbial can of worms, but I appreciate the comments from whom took it seriously.

 

[Clammy]

I've got one. I used the airII at first and loved the idea that I didn't have to worry about an octo and there were fewer hoses, and that I wouldn't be dragging anything around if it fell out of whatever holder it was in.... Until I HAD to use it... at depth, in an OOA situation. 130 foot dive, OOA at 85ish and I was the doner. Had to try and make at least some stops on the way up just to be safe. Trying to control your buoyancy as well as your buddies, 6 inches away from each other, in the middle of the water column with no point of reference, WHILE making stops... not fun.

I've since switched to a 7 foot hose with necklace. Other than a bit of getting used to managing all those hoses, I have no regrets AT ALL.

That being said, I still have my other BC with the AIR II just in case as backup as well as shallow dives.... although I've never used it again and just use my bp/w for everything.

 

[cbmech2]

I too as a couple of other folks in this thread have used both set-ups. I personally favor the integrated inflator/octo because I am more streamlined. I personally use the SP Air 2 and have no complaints. I want to begin diving some wrecks since I am so close to San Diego's Wreck Alley. I would be concerned of either slicing an octo hose or snagging it on something while penetrating the wreck. That would not be pretty to deal with at depth and one consideration to look at.

 

[The Kraken]

For all intents and purposes, for all reductions in drag, etc., I can find no reason to use an intergrated alternate air source given the problematic scenarios generated by an actual OOA situation by your buddy.

I've never bought into the "well, I've reduced the drag by one hose." theory. Dear God, if you're really enjoying your dive, you're not moving fast enough that the resistence of one LP hose would cause any undue consideration of your dive planning.

Just go with a traditional alternate air source, but make sure you keep it secured, and breathe from it on every dive.

the K

 

[RAWalker]

Integreated Octo Cons:

Added failure points
P.I.T.A. to maintain
Breathe poorly
Short hose restricts head movement when in use as a reg.
Difficult to control buoyancy in an emergency

Integrated Oct Pro's:

I got nuthin'

FWIW, I've owned both, you couldn't pay me to go back to the octo/inflator combo setup again.

Pros:
It's easier to find if a primary is ripped out of you mouth.
Less posibility of being knocked loose and getting caught up or being destructive to sensitve environments.
1 less hose to deal with.
Actually less points of failure than a standard octo(extra connection points and hose is used with a standard octo)
Re address of cons:
Some models breath as well as many mainstream regulators(don't unfairly consider them as a group)
A longer inflator hose is available and addresses the head movement plus some user don't even need this modification.
Practicing buoyancy control while breathing on it will make it second nature. (Learn to use release valves)
Maintainence should be performed by qualified personel.

 

[Dave1981]

I never bought one due to compatibility. If I can't use my BC for some reason then my reg is out too (suppose I could carry a spare inflator hose and a spanner easy enough).

 

[ScottBuck]

I have two set-ups one with an octo and the other with an airII. It all depends on the people that I am diving with. If I am confident in the divers that I am with then I use my air II and all others some one new or some one I have never been diving with then I use my octo. I have used my airII I just used my other vents to dump the air.

BUT, I prefer my airII simply because I like it better have no real reason why I just do. This topic is alot like asking whats better ford or chevy, there will never be a right answer for everyone!

 

[Riger]

I never bought one due to compatibility. If I can't use my BC for some reason then my reg is out too (suppose I could carry a spare inflator hose and a spanner easy enough).

I had the same concerns, I purchased an Air2 Adaptor for a regular LP hose connection (So my regset fits a regular BCD LP connection).


My wife and I both have Air2 so either could use it in the event of a failure.

Best Regards
Richard