I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The advice, guidance and knowledge that is passed along here is of superior quality.
Instructors...What do you expect from your Divemasters?
- Thread starter Dee
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........I've dived with both Dee & Doug and they would be an asset to any dive program as a team or individually.
My concept of a DM is more like Eric's, but then I have a non PADI background.
A DM is not an AI. It seems in PADI the DM's main job is to be an AI. A DM should be able to do anything needed on board a boat, from finding a site to handling lines. In addition, a DM should be an independent thinker and not need direction from an instructor. If I have a class on board, I expect the DM to be flexable enough to work with me. The DM should give advice to divers (including instructors) concerning conditions and be an expert on the sites. The DM is in charge of all diving off his boat and it is his responsibility to ensure safe practices are followed. Safety is primary, but that can be done while everyone has fun.
When I need help with a class, I will turn to an AI, not a DM.
Walter
My concept of a DM is more like Eric's, but then I have a non PADI background.
A DM is not an AI. It seems in PADI the DM's main job is to be an AI. A DM should be able to do anything needed on board a boat, from finding a site to handling lines. In addition, a DM should be an independent thinker and not need direction from an instructor. If I have a class on board, I expect the DM to be flexable enough to work with me. The DM should give advice to divers (including instructors) concerning conditions and be an expert on the sites. The DM is in charge of all diving off his boat and it is his responsibility to ensure safe practices are followed. Safety is primary, but that can be done while everyone has fun.
When I need help with a class, I will turn to an AI, not a DM.
Walter
You said you were going to do the DM via the intern route - I did this route too. I think it is much better than the course route.
The instructor I did my DM with only did the internship. For DM, he insisted on extra things being done, one of them was to organise and run a w/end trip (everything from accomopdation and transport, sorting out the club boats, sorting out all the emergency contacts, emergency action plan, to organising the diving - nothing makes you produce a good dive site map than having to then brief a boat load of divers on it, using your map). After that, the club I ran changed who we did our training with, and they only did the fully taught course. The people in the club who qualified after me, did no-where near as much stuff, and had much less experience.
The instructor you do your DM course with will shape how you approach DM'ing. Do it with a good instructor, and you will be a good DM.
another .02
Jon T
The instructor I did my DM with only did the internship. For DM, he insisted on extra things being done, one of them was to organise and run a w/end trip (everything from accomopdation and transport, sorting out the club boats, sorting out all the emergency contacts, emergency action plan, to organising the diving - nothing makes you produce a good dive site map than having to then brief a boat load of divers on it, using your map). After that, the club I ran changed who we did our training with, and they only did the fully taught course. The people in the club who qualified after me, did no-where near as much stuff, and had much less experience.
The instructor you do your DM course with will shape how you approach DM'ing. Do it with a good instructor, and you will be a good DM.
another .02
Jon T
From what I have seen, the GOOD DM's go strait from DM to IDC to being full instructors, without being an AI first. The instructors I have dived with and helped, have almost always never use AI's. They have the impression that an AI is a divemaster that wasn't good enough to go on the full IDC. I was discussing doing an IDC with a PADI CD I knew, and due to taking time out of work couldn't make 10 strait days for IDC + IE, I thought about doing the AI instead because I could do this over 2 weekends. His advice was not to bother with AI, and go strait to IDC when I had the time.
Walter, the thread was more about the DM working the class with you, not the DM who'se boat you were using for the class, your comments about the DM on the boat though are bang on right - I think that if there is a suitable boat it is better to seperate the class from other activities, and have the class DM work the boat (if he / she can)
In PADI-speak DM's and AI's are Certified Instructional Assistants.
Personally, I see the AI as just another level that PADI have put in for (their own) commercial reasons. I have done several courses where there was 1 (or more) DM's than required as a minimum (and no AI), and this provided for all the instructors needs (and DM's weren't payed, whereas AI's probably would have been).
just .02
Jon T
...........with PADI. They have DM's who are in reality AI's. This results in having DM's who are clueless when it comes to actually being a DM. Is this wrong? That's a matter of opinion, it seems to work well for PADI. Personally, I don't care for it. One more reason I'm not in the PADI program, but if you like it stay with it.
In the YMCA program a DM can assist me by being an extra set of eyes in the water and increase the total number of students I can have on a dive. An AI can do this and also actually teach under my direct supervision. AI's have been taught how to teach. DM's have not. AI's gain experience teaching. Having experience teaching as an AI is required before one can become an instructor. An AI is someone who almost always desires to become an instructor. DM's frequently have no desire to teach.
"the thread was more about the DM working the class with you, not the DM who'se boat you were using for the class"
I didn't take it that way, nor did I take it as agency specific. I took it as someone looking to see how different the world was in different areas and from different viewpoints. Perhaps, I took, "So I'd like to ask what you expect from your Divemasters?" out of context.
Now we have a pretty good idea how two of the agencies view DM's & AI's. Anyone have any info on other agencies?
Walter
In the YMCA program a DM can assist me by being an extra set of eyes in the water and increase the total number of students I can have on a dive. An AI can do this and also actually teach under my direct supervision. AI's have been taught how to teach. DM's have not. AI's gain experience teaching. Having experience teaching as an AI is required before one can become an instructor. An AI is someone who almost always desires to become an instructor. DM's frequently have no desire to teach.
"the thread was more about the DM working the class with you, not the DM who'se boat you were using for the class"
I didn't take it that way, nor did I take it as agency specific. I took it as someone looking to see how different the world was in different areas and from different viewpoints. Perhaps, I took, "So I'd like to ask what you expect from your Divemasters?" out of context.
Now we have a pretty good idea how two of the agencies view DM's & AI's. Anyone have any info on other agencies?
Walter
raffles
Guest
The way I see it and the way I train my Dive Masters to be is as follows.
Smart, Intelligent, Hard working role models with sufficient skill and training to step up immediately, if they want to, after their internship to the next level.
(AI's are just Divemasters with written permission to do some of the stuff that some Instuctors find boring.)
Most importantly I consider my DMs as part of my team. We all carry, we all turn up on time, we all make sure that the paying customer gets the best bang for their buck and we all share in the rewards.
Team unhappy=customer unhappy=no more customer=no more diving
NO MORE DIVING=FATE WORSE THAN DEATH!!!!!
Smart, Intelligent, Hard working role models with sufficient skill and training to step up immediately, if they want to, after their internship to the next level.
(AI's are just Divemasters with written permission to do some of the stuff that some Instuctors find boring.)
Most importantly I consider my DMs as part of my team. We all carry, we all turn up on time, we all make sure that the paying customer gets the best bang for their buck and we all share in the rewards.
Team unhappy=customer unhappy=no more customer=no more diving
NO MORE DIVING=FATE WORSE THAN DEATH!!!!!
Walter, PADI *does* make a distinction between an AI and a DM. In fact, an AI in PADI program is very much as you described it in the YMCA hierarchy.
AIs are empowered to teach all academics under the direct supervision of an Instructor. On their own they can teach the following courses: Medic First Aid, Project Aware, and Peak Performance Bouyancy. They are also empowered to evaluate surface skills during an Open Water course.
With regard to DMs, I was answering Dee's question about what we generally expect of our DMs. Again, DMs are also expected to perform many of the functions you mentioned, like site briefings. Of course they are expected to think independent of an Instructor! Any good DM will do that, regardless of agency affiliation.
DMs also perform non-teaching duties like guiding divers on Local Area Dives.
Recently PADI re-designed and strengthened the role of the AI. And this has been reflected in the new Instructor Development Course.
~SubMariner~
AIs are empowered to teach all academics under the direct supervision of an Instructor. On their own they can teach the following courses: Medic First Aid, Project Aware, and Peak Performance Bouyancy. They are also empowered to evaluate surface skills during an Open Water course.
With regard to DMs, I was answering Dee's question about what we generally expect of our DMs. Again, DMs are also expected to perform many of the functions you mentioned, like site briefings. Of course they are expected to think independent of an Instructor! Any good DM will do that, regardless of agency affiliation.
DMs also perform non-teaching duties like guiding divers on Local Area Dives.
Recently PADI re-designed and strengthened the role of the AI. And this has been reflected in the new Instructor Development Course.
~SubMariner~
exnewwavedivers
Guest
During the divemaster training, divemasters have go through the divemaster manual and video. A trainee becomes more experienced everytime there is an opportunity to assist in a course or organizing/conducting dives.
During the course, the DM has already learned the duties and responsibilities and things that can be expected from a divemaster.
Personally, I expect my DM to not only be able to anticipate and provide for instructor needs, but to see them continue to read books or sit down during idle time with students during classes to refresh. Doing this makes them remember the theories better as well as teaching methods which would help in the future when the DM does the instructor course.
I believe that the more a diver knows about theories, the more knowledge base they have that they can draw upon to make decisions. A lot of times, and this is true for instructors as well, one certified as a DM (or passing the instructor course), the dive professional does not bother to read books and lots of things can be forgotten.
As a test, if you are a PADI divemaster/instructor, ask yourself, do you remember how to use the wheel or actually teach students to use it without reviewing the manual that came with it?
During the course, the DM has already learned the duties and responsibilities and things that can be expected from a divemaster.
Personally, I expect my DM to not only be able to anticipate and provide for instructor needs, but to see them continue to read books or sit down during idle time with students during classes to refresh. Doing this makes them remember the theories better as well as teaching methods which would help in the future when the DM does the instructor course.
I believe that the more a diver knows about theories, the more knowledge base they have that they can draw upon to make decisions. A lot of times, and this is true for instructors as well, one certified as a DM (or passing the instructor course), the dive professional does not bother to read books and lots of things can be forgotten.
As a test, if you are a PADI divemaster/instructor, ask yourself, do you remember how to use the wheel or actually teach students to use it without reviewing the manual that came with it?
...........can you tie a clove hitch? a half hitch? a bowline? Can you tie off an anchor line without losing a finger?
WWW
WWW
Walter, what you seem to think DMs should be responsible for on a boat are actually things the CREW of the vessel should be doing, like anchoring.
Now, that's not to say that people crewing the boat can't also be DMs... of course they can. But I think you are stretching it a bit to insist that is a crucial part of DMing, when it's actually a local requirement.
~SubMariner~
Now, that's not to say that people crewing the boat can't also be DMs... of course they can. But I think you are stretching it a bit to insist that is a crucial part of DMing, when it's actually a local requirement.
~SubMariner~
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