instructor course review - did you know...

[Thalassamania]

One key atttribute in a successful instructor is the ability to market, whether it is marketing classes, trips or gear. To view it as an exercise requiring you to earn points for your "selling abilities" does not do it justice. Consider how you might actually get students to come take your classes, or continue to take your classes, or travel with you, if you don't know how to market well.

And making sure that the candidate mentions con-ed or pieces of gear that might be bought (which is all that is checked off, or so I'm told) has anything what-so-ever to do with signing up future students or travel prospects?

 

[oly5050user]

One key atttribute in a successful instructor is the ability to market, whether it is marketing classes, trips or gear. To view it as an exercise requiring you to earn points for your "selling abilities" does not do it justice. Consider how you might actually get students to come take your classes, or continue to take your classes, or travel with you, if you don't know how to market well.

TEACHING DIVING IS A BUSINESS,if you cannot accept that then maybe being an instructor is not what you truly want to be.
To be a successful instructor you have to market yourself,courses and gear.You actually do the student a disservice if you do not advise what gear would work for them and for the type of diving they are to get into.
Explaining features and benefits to students is your JOB..If you do not create a need in the students mind for gear ownership then they do not buy gear.They do not dive either for they do not have the gear. Who do you think a facility manager gives more classes to? The instructor who comes in and recites a boring class to students or the instructor who MOTIVATES the students to dive and travel with him, thereby create a need for gear?
I have a group of 15 going to Bonaire with me Saturday.Out of those I have 2 who are completing their inital ow training dives and 5 completing advance and 1 going for their uw photo speciality.and 2 doing nitrox certification..I sold them on this trip during ow academic presentations in class and along with that 4 complete gear package sales complete with computers..
Guess who gets alot of classes and mostly all of the private classes..

 

[Thalassamania]

DIVING IS A BUSINESS,if you cannot accept that then maybe being an instructor is not what you truly want to be.

You represent only one type of instructor, and that's fine, but you are not the entire constellation of diving instructors. I, for example, have been an instructor for a long time and have never had to sell anything ... so it is possible.

To be a successful instructor you have to market yourself,courses and gear.

Again, that may true in the majority of cases, but not all.

You actually do the student a disservice if you do not advise what gear would work for them and for the type of diving they are to get into.
Explaining features and benefits to students is your JOB..

Sure, but when you combine the conflict of interest inherent in the current situation, with the abysmal lack actual product knowledge and experience with respect to "competing" products that many current instructors exhibit, I'd say that the disservice done to the student is not as you relate it.

If you do not create a need in the students mind for gear ownership then they do not buy gear.They do not dive either for they do not have the gear.

Again, you are missing the conflict of interest. I ask my ski instructor about gear, but she has no economic interest in my purchasing decision.

Who do you think a facility manager gives more classes to? The instructor who comes in and recites a boring class to students or the instructor who MOTIVATES the students to dive and travel with him, thereby create a need for gear?

To whomever sells more gear, regardless of their entertainment quality or teaching ability. Your idea that a course that is not designed to sell gear to students is somehow boring is rather strange.

I have a group of 15 going to Bonaire with me Saturday.Out of those I have 2 who are completing their inital ow training dives and 5 completing advance and 1 going for their uw photo speciality..I sold them on this trip during ow academic presentations in class and along with that 4 complete gear package sales complete with computers..

So what? Am I supposed to kneel down and worship at your altar? I hope you all have a good time, but that's about it.

Guess who gets alot of classes and mostly all of the private classes..

I'm happy that you and your shop manager have such a sweet mutual admiration society, but that's not a game that my personal ethical system would permit me to play. But my scruples don't seem to have either kept me from being provided a lot of free travel to dive sites that you can only dream about as well as all the courses that I want to teach along with a healthy honorarium. It is not necessary to play the dive shop game, there are other ways.

 

[Agamemnon]

I agree that if you want to sell stuff as an instructor in a dive operation or sell your instruction, that the sales aspect to padi could be helpful. However, because the padi instructor course is marketed to new recreational divers like myself, a lot of us will never end up instructing. We took the course for fun, knowledge or any number of other reasons - not planning on being professionals. Considering padi is marketing to us, they could throw us a bone and include a few advanced tips or a book or something - other than the book on selling/teaching, there is no new diving content.

 

[Indian Valley Scuba]

Interesting round of responses.....and I like your style, Oly5050.

 

[Jack Scuba]

Wait, who is this thread bashing now? PADI or the LDS? Just want to be sure since I have some slurs of my own about some of the LDS in this area, but not much about PADI.

 

[tregrrr]

hmmm wouldn't it be nice if teaching scuba was more like teaching skiing, or driving, or golf, or or or...

A couple of LDS' in the area hatch instructors to be sales drones (who put their ethics, humanity and morals into a Pelican Case for safe keeping) in perpetuation of the business' established policy of hard-selling and pressuring impressionable students into whatever garners the highest commission scale. Fortunately for the drones, there is foam available for said Pelican Case so things don't rattle too much around in there.


Fortunately, however there are a couple of places around here where the business of diving is sometimes mixed with a love of diving and the results can be rewarding for all involved. Before someone jumps in a says these 'good guys' are endangered, be it known that the two I think of readily have been in operation since the 1970's

Wait, who is this thread bashing now? PADI or the LDS? Just want to be sure since I have some slurs of my own about some of the LDS in this area, but not much about PADI.

I personally am aiming at a couple LDS', but Thal has a couple valid points too in his usual way of loving the core practices that a particular business model is based on. Typically that leads to agency bashing later on as less discriminating people come in and assume that the agency proper is being faulted

 

[tregrrr]

[BACK] instead of [EDIT] caused a double post
oops

 

[oly5050user]

[

QUOTE=Thalassamania;5182176]You represent only one type of instructor, and that's fine, but you are not the entire constellation of diving instructors. I, for example, have been an instructor for a long time and have never had to sell anything ... so it is possible.

long time active instructor here too.Selling does not mean unethical.Instructor there to inform and assist student in their endeavour to dive.

Sure, but when you combine the conflict of interest inherent in the current situation, with the abysmal lack actual product knowledge and experience with respect to "competing" products that many current instructors exhibit, I'd say that the disservice done to the student is not as you relate it

.How is it a conflict of interests? How do you know if there is a lack of product knowledge on my end? You are mistaken on that.Its up to the instructor to stay current on gear selections available to todays divers.

Again, you are missing the conflict of interest. I ask my ski instructor about gear, but she has no economic interest in my purchasing decision

.Because the ski instructor is not thinking of their activity as a business.Only economic interest I have is to be successful in what I do so that I can keep on doing it and doing it well.

To whomever sells more gear, regardless of their entertainment quality or teaching ability. Your idea that a course that is not designed to sell gear to students is somehow boring is rather strange.

I have sat in on my share of boring classes.Students turn off after a while and do not hear/absorb what they are being told or shown.A good instuctor has to be able to MOTIVATE students to dive.Being in a boring 2 hour lecture in a classroom does not motivate.A good instructor should be able to complete a academic module in 45-60 minutes.Thats from introduction to summary along with going over knowledge reviews admin quiz,going over the quiz and answering any questions.

So what? Am I supposed to kneel down and worship at your altar? I hope you all have a good time, but that's about it.

Nope no false idol worship wanted.Just stating what a instructor wanting to be successful should do.

happy that you and your shop manager have such a sweet mutual admiration society, but that's not a game that my personal ethical system would permit me to y. But my scruples don't seem to have either kept me from being provided a lot of free travel to dive sites that you can only dream about as well as all the courses that I want to teach along with a healthy honorarium. It is not necessary to play the dive shop game, there are other ways.

Again there is nothing unethical about informing students of gear choices suitable for the type of diving they plan to get into.I see you do sell if you get free travel,is that unethical on your part?are not universities hurting now for $$.Would it be more ethical on your part to pay your own way?I do not know about the dives site I can only dream about.Been there did that.I used the upcoming trip as a example of what should be done to be sucessful.I see instructors moan and groan that they do not teach enough.That there are not enough students to go around.I do not see them on the phone or computer contacting them to get classes going either.I do not see them offering to take them diving locally or on trips either.They sit back and expect classes/students to come to them without any effort put in to be sucessful.It does not work that way.
I did the university/college course teaching thing-SUNY Maritime-,and to be honest to all that are currently doing that, I give you alot of credit,it was not worth my time.College students are kids with no supervision.They come to class late or not at all and expect you to make up what they missed at no cost to themselves.They place next to none or very little monetary investment in the activity themselves so they do not usually take it very seriously.Its not always because of lack of funds for I see many of them drive high end vehicles.
I have yet to see a large percentage of them actually dive after certification because of said lack of funds or other "interests " present themselves.

 

[SailNaked]

As instructors we are afforded the opportunity to assist people in doing something fun safely. we are blessed with a profession to inspire new and exciting adventures for people. So during our instruction we inform anyone that wants to know about other opportunities to express them selves. you want to belittle that experience by whining and calling it sales then do not instruct.

the OP was misinformed on the IDC and should not have taken it. it is not a course to learn anything about diving it is a course to learn about teaching diving. If you do not wish to inspire new divers then do not do the IDC for any agency. As you said, you did it for you, that is the wrong focus for an instructor, it should be about the students.

If you want to expand your diving take, Wreck, Cave, Deco Procedures, ICE, or commercial diving.