Instruction Duration

[kjunheart]

Diversauras once bubbled...
As you can see I am NAUI but I don't think that the agency is as important as the instructor. All sylabi are about the minimums that can be taught, not about the max. Someone who is committed to teaching will not put out the minimum.

I do think this thread is even more about putting out nothing, which is what any LDS or instructor is guilty of if their only criteria is to complete and grade the reviews and the final test.

From what I have been told, my instructor was one of the best. The LDS is highly regarded in my area because they are the ones who do the rescue training (not my instructor) for the fire departments. Evidently somewhere down the road my instructor became complacent. I agree that the instructor is the key and where the breakdown occurs, but I feel at some point the agency has to be responsible for the people who represent them. If no one brings issues such as this to their attention, then how can they correct it? I know that if my company had an employee who, bottom line, had no integrity, then that employee would no longer work for us. I would hope, considering the safety issues involved, that the agencies would want to know this is happening. If they don’t then who will? Obviously not the LDS or there wouldn’t be a problem.

 

[Diversauras]

There have been some good comments, and again this thread dovetails with others here on the board, and I think we are further identifing a problem or perhaps even the main problem with novice divers today.

How about suggestions as to some form of an answer that will get all students trained properlythe first time.


I agree with Kjunheart that some LDSs are ignoring the problem and I'd give them the benifit of the doubt in that they may not realize the scope of it. Kkunheart, did you get to critique your course? Did they ignore your compalints and comments?

As much as it makes sense to do the quality control at the agency level, they are not the employers, the LDSs are, and they therefore are the ones with the power to flag and control the problem, but as Kjunheart indicated, why aren't they?

 

[kjunheart]

Diversauras once bubbled...
I agree with Kjunheart that some LDSs are ignoring the problem and I'd give them the benifit of the doubt in that they may not realize the scope of it. Kkunheart, did you get to critique your course? Did they ignore your compalints and comments?

No, I didn't get a chance to critique the course. Even if I had been given the chance (say right after completing it), I wouldn't have known that he didn't do his part. Heck, I still haven't received my permanent C-card (still have temp from them but have AOW & Nitrox from different agency).

 

[Diversauras]

A new diver doesn't know he/she didn't get completely / well trained until after the course and all recourse is in the past. Seems there needs to be a predive organization that looks out for potential students and shows them what to look for, why to look for it, and how to know if you did or didn't get it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Diversauras once bubbled...
A new diver doesn't know he/she didn't get completely / well trained until after the course and all recourse is in the past. Seems there needs to be a predive organization that looks out for potential students and shows them what to look for, why to look for it, and how to know if you did or didn't get it.

You might have something there.

 

[plsdiver4377]

6 weeks on Sundays with 3.5 to 4 hrs class time(with homework) then 2 to 2.5 pool time (learning, practicing, demonstrating skills for most of that time, with a little free time for fun). Then 5 checkout dives over 2 days at Devils Den and Rainbow River.

 

[ScubaScott]

Diversauras once bubbled...
A new diver doesn't know he/she didn't get completely / well trained until after the course and all recourse is in the past. Seems there needs to be a predive organization that looks out for potential students and shows them what to look for, why to look for it, and how to know if you did or didn't get it.

I wouldn't have had a clue what to look for in an instructor when I first went for OW - students don't know until they get some experience - ususally away from thier original instructor. In fact I went to one shop, it didn't open till 1:00pm, so I went to another and signed up immedaitly. No questions from me about how long she was instructing, what she teaches, .......... I got lucky and got probably the best instructor in town. However, if the other shop had been open, I would have got some real half-assed instruction.

However, a predive organization only puts another cog on the wheel that can get sloppy or biased - either case doesn't help a potential student out. Some have tried on a smaller scale I guess - the PADI vs Diverlink mess and all those involve just got ugly. I don't have a solution to this problem, but some other organization giving advice about other organizations is bound to break away from its original intent and morales somewhere along the line...

 

[Diversauras]

Good point.

 

[MikeFerrara]

ScubaScott once bubbled...



However, a predive organization only puts another cog on the wheel that can get sloppy or biased - either case doesn't help a potential student out. Some have tried on a smaller scale I guess - the PADI vs Diverlink mess and all those involve just got ugly. I don't have a solution to this problem, but some other organization giving advice about other organizations is bound to break away from its original intent and morales somewhere along the line...

Some of us have discussed an instructor organization that would work on addressing some of this stuff within our respective organizations. IMO, they all have similar problems yet we can't teach without them. If you make it a slam against one agency you might end up in court but IMO, if it's addressed on an industry wide basis the results may be different.

At the time we decided to hold off thinking that Scubaboard was going to start an instructor forum which would have provided a good communication tool. On both ends I guess it kind of died for the time being.

For me it's a very frustrating situation and if my modest life savings wasn't tied up in a dive shop I could see myself totally washing my hands of recreational diving.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Diversauras once bubbled...
A new diver doesn't know he/she didn't get completely / well trained until after the course and all recourse is in the past. Seems there needs to be a predive organization that looks out for potential students and shows them what to look for, why to look for it, and how to know if you did or didn't get it.

I disagree that all recourse is past. That is what the agencies want is feedback.. Write a letter to the shop owner, and send a copy to the certifying agency. It may not help but it will usually get some answers.

I tell all of my students the first night of class. If I am not getting the job done to your satisfaction then I will get someone else to come in and take my place or I will arrange a different class for them, extra class time or water sessions at no change. Maybe I'm just a dumb newbie instructor that is enjoying himself right now, but that is why I got into it. Fortunately, my shop and staff totally support my position and are always willing to help out. The amazing part, our shop is the one that is really hurting in this area because we don't spend our time pulling fast ones on the students.

If someone you know feels like they got taken during their dive class.. Let everyone know, especially the shop owner, instructor, and agency. Do it in writing though.. that really gets their attention.