Instruction Duration

[scuberd]

Wendy once bubbled...
My class was 6 weeks long


2 hours of classroom every Monday, included videos, hands on instrcution, and lecture.

Pool sessions were divided between Tuesdays and Wednesdays because of the class size. You had the option of attending both days if you wanted extra practise. Pool sessions lasted 2 hours each night and skills were done the entire time, except for the last 20 mins of class we were allowed to play.

I'm only a DM and an AI, but the classes are almost the same as Wendy's. The course is 9 weeks, 2.5 hours in the classroom each week and another 2.5 each week in the pool. The homework is mandatory in addition to attending class, and pool sessions have a list of skills that need to be done. If there is time afterwards the students play games like underwater hockey or work on things they need to practice. Then a 2 day, 4 dive checkout weekend in Monterey

 

[MikeFerrara]

Some people including instructors and agencies are of the opinion that everything that a student need to know is in the book and that passing the tests demonstrates mastery.

I disagree.

I submit the silted out mess you will see anywhere there are divers as proof.

Have you ever sat around a popular dive site and just watched. What a show. You see people fighting to get down. You see people fighting to get up. You see tanks falling out of cam bands onto the ground.

I have had others tell me that they don't see as much bad stuff as I claim to see. I started to think things were just worse around here for some reason. Well, I was at Vortex a couple weeks ago and it was even worse there.

I hate to say it but with the skill I see displayed by most instructors maybe the less time the students spend with them the better off they are.

After all you can't lecture if you don't have anything to say. If you don't know anything you certainly won't have anything to say.

No sense having them in the pool very long either if you can't show them anything.

 

[MikeFerrara]

After reading my last post I started thinking it may make someone mad. I hope so.

 

[Diversauras]

I hope they come out of the wood work and get identified because anyone having a problem with what you wrote IS part of the problem.

As to why some don't see the problems you see, maybe they don't know what to look for, maybe their tank slips occasionally so they think this is normal.

I would also offer the thought that maybe it take 20 or more good dives with qualified divers (not necessairly instructors) to overcome the 4 or 5 dives with a bad instructor in a bad OW cert program.

 

[wheezy]

Well I can say that I feel like I learned more than MOST people who take a basic OW class. I feel that this is truely the best part of NAUI that it lets the instructors teach EXTRA material.

My class was pretty rigerous... 8 hour days for the first four days..

about 4hours class 3 hours pool with a lunch break..

the last two days were more like 2.5 hours class and then two dives with a break in between dives..

GREAT program.... I had more skills after being just certified than a lot of the "experienced" divers in the area.



About sitting and watching... watching the local shore dive areas is great, people getting pounded by surf.. equipment flailing like masks and fins... good stuff.

Anyhow.. NAUI is the way if you ask me
Studying for my Nitrox class tonight... one chapter left.. and already have all my formula's memorized

 

[MikeFerrara]

wheezy once bubbled...
Anyhow.. NAUI is the way if you ask me
Studying for my Nitrox class tonight... one chapter left.. and already have all my formula's memorized

Percentage wise I see about as many lousy NAUI instructors and divers as I do from any other agency. It isn't an agency problem it's an industry problem.

 

[kjunheart]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
After reading my last post I started thinking it may make someone mad. I hope so.

Mike, your post should make people mad...then maybe the agencies will do something about it! :fury:

I, like ScubaFishee, took a private course for my OW last year. I had minimal class & pool time. Once I got in the water (outside of class) I realized how little I actually knew. I know that I lost out on a lot by not having the opportunity to participate/listen to class discussions. Since then, I have taken it upon myself to continue my education. But, there are a lot of divers out there that don't realize (or care) how their lack of knowledge is a danger not only to themselves but to other divers.

At first, I blamed the agency because I thought they must have a substandard program. I now know it was the instructor who failed to properly "teach" me. I also know the point would be lost if I complained to the dive shop. Therefore, after talking to a few people, I recently drafted a letter to the agency asking about their minimum standards for certification and how can they allow less than qualified divers to be certified. Where they take it from there is unknown. But as someone pointed out to me, if I don't bring it to their attention then who will. Maybe more people should complain.

 

[Diversauras]

As you can see I am NAUI but I don't think that the agency is as important as the instructor. All sylabi are about the minimums that can be taught, not about the max. Someone who is committed to teaching will not put out the minimum.

I do think this thread is even more about putting out nothing, which is what any LDS or instructor is guilty of if their only criteria is to complete and grade the reviews and the final test.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Diversauras, I think your 100% correct.

 

[ScubaFishee]

Diversauras once bubbled...
<snipped>...

I would also offer the thought that maybe it take 20 or more good dives with qualified divers (not necessairly instructors) to overcome the 4 or 5 dives with a bad instructor in a bad OW cert program.

I can confirm, it takes not only that, but in the long run it ends up costing twice as much money to correct the problem.

Before signing up for training, I did my research and checked out various LDSs in the area. I compared not only costs, but training objectives, yada, yada. I asked all the questions and when I narrowed it down to two shops, I even tried to "interview" the instructors. One shop didn't know yet who would be teaching the class but assured me it would be a "qualified" instructor.

At second shop, the instructor answered all my questions and alleviated all my concerns. I finally decided to sign up with this shop and paid extra for the semi private course so that my dive buddy and I would have the instructor to ourselves, ensuring the time would be best spent in the areas where we needed them.

Well, turns out after paying for the class, the instructor who answered all my questions and told me about all the things he would teach me, rarely teaches unless it is an instructor course. Instead, he had to "find" instructors available for us and even though we only had three pool sessions, they ended up split between two different instructors.

I had no classroom time. I watched the video at home, read the book, and took the tests. There was no discussion of material. The policy is basically to discuss any questions you get wrong. Since I only got three questions wrong of all the chapter reviews, module tests and final exam, what I learned was what the book said. I didn't need to ask any questions because I understood the material. Or so I thought.

It has taken a lot of effort and additional money, time and training on my part to learn the things I missed, mostly because I didn't know what I didn't know. I've been lucky in that I found a mentor who has helped me to learn the things that I missed out on.

If I had my way, I wish I could get my money back from the LDS and give it to my mentor, because he has done far more teaching and given me far more training that I ever got at the LDS. Because of the things that I learn from him, I can now ask the questions that need to be asked to keep me moving forward and learning the things I need to learn to become a better and better diver.

What I wonder is, what happens to the divers who get the type of training I originally got, but who don't have the good fortune of finding an experienced diver to act as their mentor and help them to correct the wrongs?