Instructing

[still new]

I am hoping to finish my specialties and rescue diver this winter. My goal is to aquire my Master Diver Cert, my question is can I instruct or be an assistant instructor with the MD cert?

 

[tfsails]

No. Master Diver, as I understand it, is the apex of the recreational diver certification ladder. It is NOT divemaster or any other professional certification. Divemaster is the lowest rung on the professional ladder.

MD is a commendable accomplishment; don't misunderstand me here. However, when you get it you will have had virtually no training in the legalities and logistics of leadling groups of divers for whom you'll be responsible.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. Don't shoot me, I'm just the messinger.

 

[still new]

No worries, I just saw a member of Scuba Board with the MD and Instructor behind his handle.I was just wondering, at my age I don't want the hastle of too much stress while learning more about diving.

MP

 

[String]

He maybe a "Master Scuba Diver Trainer" which is an entirely different thing from Master Scuba Diver.

With PADI at least, MSDT is simply an instructor with 5 (or more) specialities teaching qualifications and >25 teaching credits.

MSD however is simply buying a card after completing rescue and some specialities that says you're on -its not a course or qualification.

 

[Arizona]

MSD however is simply buying a card after completing rescue and some specialities that says you're on -its not a course or qualification.

String, I have to disagree with you on this one... Although I do see your point.

I think Master Scuba Diver is a bit more than "simply buying a card". I have not encountered many fun divers yet with this cert, but would welcome them as they should be accomplished, granted below a professional level. This cert indicates experience beyond the average recreational diver.

MP don't worry about age, if you are interested pursue the DM training. Health of course should be considered. I had a blast doing mine. How nice to do something different than what is most likely your "normal" job. :cool2:

Arizona

 

[Sas]

I think Master Scuba Diver is a bit more than "simply buying a card". I have not encountered many fun divers yet with this cert, but would welcome them as they should be accomplished, granted below a professional level. This cert indicates experience beyond the average recreational diver.

Actually it isn't. At least when you talk about PADI/SSI and perhaps a few others (I think NAUI you actually have to do extra stuff to get a Master Diver card). A Master Diver card requires no extra training, or extra experience, only $$$. So if a diver has Rescue, the required specialties and the dive number to get Master Diver, and they choose not to get the card, then they are no less qualified than someone who spends the money to get the card. It's literally buying a card for the sake of having a card. Same as SSI's dive experience cards, you can buy a 'Century' card to show you've done 100 dives and so on... Some people like the recognition so like to buy the cards. To each their own.

And as far as experience beyond the average recreational diver, well I guess that depends where you dive, as for most of the people I know who dive local to me, I doubt they would think someone who is Master Diver is particularly experienced seeing as it only requires 50 dives and a few specialties... However, in other areas perhaps 50 dives is a lot.

 

[Arizona]

I still think anyone meeting the pre-requisites for this cert has demonstrated more experience and most likely skills than the average recreational diver. The 5 specialties should ensure a variety of diving type experiences under the additional guidance of an instructor which is a good thing. Having the card or not as you point out does not really matter. It does however sum it up with one card though. Experience combined with additional training is always welcomed. I see a lot of holiday divers and seeing more regular dive experience combined with advanced training would be nice to see more often. Perhaps PADI's marketing will help that happen

 

[Sas]

I still think anyone meeting the pre-requisites for this cert has demonstrated more experience and most likely skills than the average recreational diver. The 5 specialties should ensure a variety of diving type experiences under the additional guidance of an instructor which is a good thing. Having the card or not as you point out does not really matter. It does however sum it up with one card though. Experience combined with additional training is always welcomed. I see a lot of holiday divers and seeing more regular dive experience combined with advanced training would be nice to see more often. Perhaps PADI's marketing will help that happen

I think that whether one gets a variety of diving type experiences doing specialties depends largely on the specialties one decides to take with Master Diver.

Also I am not sure what is really considered to the be the 'average recreational diver' to know if Master Diver is an accurate indicator of someone who is more skilled and experienced than this. I know that I personally wouldn't take much notice of it (or any other recreational card for that matter) as I don't think any of the recreational certifications are difficult to obtain. There is no substitute for seeing someone actually dive, even if they have a walletful of rec cert cards.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Would it surprise anyone to know that none of this is required?

In order to become a certifying agency the only requirements are submitting a structured teaching program and acquiring insurance for the agency.

So Joe Blow, who has never made a dive, can go to the library and research a few agencies.... Develops a structured teaching program for each level of diving (Including; Instructor, Instructor Trainer, and any specialty they desire), Submit it and acquire insurance from Lloyd's of London... BANG! Accredited certifying agency!

Many of today's instructors look to their bottom line (as they should). Heck, if the structured teaching is basically the same as everywhere else and the cost of transferring their current certifications is cheap enough, they might as well find the cheapest, best liability insurance they can and go with it...
---

Don't believe it? In the 80's my sister and brother-in-law started ISEA (International Scuba Educators Association). ISEA was insured with Lloyd's of London. When they reached 1000 dive shops, they sold to the largest dive shop and opened a bar. Since then, ISEA folded under pressure...

Another:
My original instructor went from PADI to SSI and became one of the first Instructor Trainers for NASE.

In turn, his first IT course (1985) was given to 5 students (hand picked) for $200.00. Yes, I jumped at the opportunity to become an instructor for that price (insurance through Lloyd's was $550.00 per year). We dove every mud puddle in Florida to get through the training. We instructed each other, we presented instruction, we did everything an instructor for PADI, NAUI, SSI, YMCA or any other acronym did to complete Instructor Training, knowing the standards applied to all certifying agencies.

In the end, I was a certified Instructor for NASE in 1985, and could train new divers with the best of them and insured by Lloyd's of London...
---

About 2 years after that, I got married and had a family shortly. I couldn't afford to keep teaching, keep a job and feed the family... So, I gave up my insurance and became a "past instructor"...

Little has changed since those days. You too can own a certifying agency, if you want to take the time to do the research, find the insurance and stick to the standards. Keep in mind, you need to keep insurance good and costs down for instructors, and you will have agencies transferring to your agency faster than you think.

On top of that, get good with a table saw, get a good printer and a router... Nothing says excellent certifying agency like decent plaques on a dive shop wall
---

I know this isn't what you expected, but it is a small inside look at what it takes...

Good luck!

 

[japan-diver]

I still think anyone meeting the pre-requisites for this cert has demonstrated more experience and most likely skills than the average recreational diver. The 5 specialties should ensure a variety of diving type experiences under the additional guidance of an instructor which is a good thing. Having the card or not as you point out does not really matter. It does however sum it up with one card though. Experience combined with additional training is always welcomed. I see a lot of holiday divers and seeing more regular dive experience combined with advanced training would be nice to see more often. Perhaps PADI's marketing will help that happen

Unfortunately your ideal is not the norm- we see quite a few divers with the Master Scuba Diver card and they are no more experienced or trained then divers with similar dive numbers. Most of the specialties require few skills or knowledge to complete- many of the dives are completed under the guidance of a DM or worst yet a DM candidate and little feedback is given on skills or diving.

For example what advanced dive skills are required for the following specialties:

Boat Diver
Nitrox Diver (no dives required)
Peak Performance Buoyancy
PADI Aware
Photography

If you seek better training most of the canned specialities that are offered besides Rescue which I think every diver should take, do not make a better diver. When looking to improve your diving find an Instructor that will sit down and talk to you about your diving and give you drills and feedback to improve your weak areas. Collecting cards does not make you a better diver- some of my best "classes" where just weekends diving with other divers or instructors who would honestly critique my skills and give pointers for improvement- no cards involved.