Input blown off by male classmates

[RikRaeder]

Fuzzmutton, it's very clear that these two gents didn't listen to you for one reason. They have something that you don't have. You will never have (I suppose). Big, massive, egos.

 

[james croft]

I was a police Field Training Officer (FTO) for a while. I got a baby-faced recruit who had a high pitched voice. Nobody listened to his directions or paid the slightest attention to what he told them to do. Many emotionally charged situations escalated because he could not control folks on the scene. I ended up telling him to grow a mustache and when he hollered at folks to "use your man voice". It got much better for him after that.

It may be hard for you to do the moustache/man voice thing but you can muster up a bit of command presence and ptoject it into your directions. The problem you may have had is that this was a training excercise. If that had been an actual emergency I believe you would have forcefully made those guys search where they needed to. It is often hard to be forceful with people when there is no real exigent circumstances that require it.

 

[TSandM]

I think sometimes it's very difficult for us to figure out a way to be emphatic without being shrill. I've operated almost all my life in environments which were predominately male, from mathematics to surgery to diving, and I've had positions where I had to be in charge and face down some very dominant guys who were quite senior to me, and it is not easy to do. But I know my own personal style is to tend to back off and defer if someone simply won't do what I want them to do, and being aware of that, I can watch for it.

But even knowing it, sometimes you can't win. I had a situation in my cave class where we were running a scenario and I was quite sure I knew how resources ought to be distributed, and my two buddies disagreed with me, and I eventually gave up. The instructor, in the debrief, agreed with me, but didn't have any suggestions about how to override my buddies in an effective way.

 

[Fuzzmutton]

Ha ha, not that young icegirl Yes, I agree that I need to exude self-assurance and confidence. That will be a hard one for me but maybe if I pretend I am talking to my boys.

Ber Rabbit--I have seen instructors use that tactic (asking for feedback and taking it in consideration). I admit, I would prefer that someone deal with me in that way. On reflection I do think I could have handled that better because sending them out again, to make the same mistake, did breed discontent. Thanks for the insight.

James, if it had been a real emergency and I had adrenaline going who knows what I might be capable of, I would probably find my voice of authority if needed. I went into the bathroom and held a bit of my hair up under my nose to see if I would look any more commanding with a mustache :marios:. It just didn't work for me.

 

[Fuzzmutton]

I think sometimes it's very difficult for us to figure out a way to be emphatic without being shrill. I've operated almost all my life in environments which were predominately male, from mathematics to surgery to diving, and I've had positions where I had to be in charge and face down some very dominant guys who were quite senior to me, and it is not easy to do. But I know my own personal style is to tend to back off and defer if someone simply won't do what I want them to do, and being aware of that, I can watch for it.

But even knowing it, sometimes you can't win. I had a situation in my cave class where we were running a scenario and I was quite sure I knew how resources ought to be distributed, and my two buddies disagreed with me, and I eventually gave up. The instructor, in the debrief, agreed with me, but didn't have any suggestions about how to override my buddies in an effective way.

I used to be in an almost all male trade, I was apprenticed as a tool and die maker after working for years in a mechanical field. Ninety-five percent of the guys were great to work with, but the other five were purely hostile to having a woman in "their manly field". I had one supervisor that had to pay me for NOT coming in on a Saturday because he called a man in instead, saying "I'm not having a woman in here doing this job."

I've become sensitive to this which is why I posted. Could I have handled directing the rescue better? Was I being paranoid as to why they wouldn't follow my lead?

TSandM, from reading your posts anyone can tell you are a logical and intelligent person, if I were diving with you I would have no trouble trusting your judgement. Just the fact that you face these same things makes me feel better.

 

[cinder4320]

I think too that sometimes in classes, everyone present is an "equal" in their skill levels and the best candidate to lead may not be the one the instructor appointed. I'm not saying you weren't the best candidate by any means but the two other divers could have "felt" they were better equipped to lead and were not the ones chosen. This would explain their mindset and it doesn't have to be specifically related to gender.

I'd like to think in a real situation a few people respond to help one says "i finished rescue last week", the second says "I'm a certified cave diver" and the third says"I'm new to diving but an EMT". The EMT leads on shore and the other two are the rescue divers in the water.

Being that this was a class, qualifications don't always choose the position one plays.

Miranda

 

[MeiLing]

I think the greatest part of leadership is presence. You have to have a presence that prevents folks from challenging your authority. It is not necessarily about knowing more than others. Frequently in life, the best managers are surrounded by folks who are smarter than them. The challenge is to make them work for you.

I was a manager in a restaurant, promoted from among my peers and friends at age 19. Fortunately, I had a mentor who taught me a lot about leadership presence. I don't always have to take over, but if there is a vacuum of leadership, I will step up to the plate when needed. I'm not about who's in charge, but getting the job done.

It may sound laughable, but if you want some great lessons about leadership, that are readily translatable to dealing with people, watch "The Dog Whisperer"! I kid you not!

Once you're at the point where your charges are in a state mutiny, it is extremely difficult to gain control!

Pretty much, you've learned that folks don't listen, just because you've been put in charge!

I think whether or not folks will listen to you has little to do with a class situation. Very often in life, folks get promoted from among a group where one or more of that group feels that they deserve it more. Being in charge is always a challenge!

 

[Ber Rabbit]

Part of those classes is not only learning to lead but learning to FOLLOW. I like to take every chance I get to put my students who prefer to be followers into leadership positions and to have those who like to give orders in a position where they have to take them. Scuba is a team sport and you have to be able to both lead and follow. When you're leading you need to be able to accept advice, when following you need to be able to give advice without seeming condescending. Rescue class is a great place to stimulate these skills in a controlled environment. You have some leadership things to learn and work on but your classmates have some follower things they need to learn and work on. We can see you working to learn and it will enrich your life, not just your diving. Are the guys doing the same? Unfortunately probably not and in the end it's their loss.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[Fuzzmutton]

Miranda and Ber I think you both are right. I am generally a follower, not a leader, unless I'm VERY experienced at something and the people around are not, then I can step up and lead with confidence. Some people though are leaders, who will lead regardless of their experience level just because they believe they have the ability to lead. Both of these fellows do fine leading; I think the instructor chose me to give me the opportunity to work on my leadership skills. I was fine with that but the guys may have been saying, "Why her?", then when they failed to find the victim it just made matters worse.

Fuzz