Independent DM ?

[leabre]

Greetings,

I'll be starting a DM program soon. I am not affiliated with any shop, and all the shops around me that I spoke with want any DM's affiliated with them to have been trained by that shop, more or less, period; shops that I frequent nearly daily take it all the more personally when I seek training from somewhere else.

The agency I've chosen to DM with (UTD) does not have an affiliated shop within 45 miles of me and in LA/SD commute, it's nearly impossible for me to get there on a work day regularily (or irregularily without busting into my vacation hours).

Given this info, I have the following questions:

1) What are some ways that an independent DM can be successful in the dive community using his/her responsibilities?

2) How can I best approach a shop to hopefully convince them to allow me to work for them? This is important, I really want to work for a shop. But I have chosen UTD as a training agency for a reason, and most shops will not allow me to DM for them if I don't wear their gear on official functions. None of the shops around here carry some of the gear (BP/w, long hose, can lights, gear configuration in general) nor offers training to that end. Also, they are not familiar with the training, configuration, and philosphy that I practice; this style of diving seems foreign to them.

Many local shops know me very well, by first name alone, and I dive with many of their staff either regularily or irregularily. But there are still some universal truths: 1) they aren't training me and 2) I don't wear their gear. But there must be a way to affiliate with them, no?

 

[oly5050user]

Greetings,

I'll be starting a DM program soon. I am not affiliated with any shop, and all the shops around me that I spoke with want any DM's affiliated with them to have been trained by that shop, more or less, period; shops that I frequent nearly daily take it all the more personally when I seek training from somewhere else.

Perhaps they understand that most LDS use DM's/Instrs that they know and or trained in house.They may have given you advise on how to pursue your desire to work as a DM and you ignored them.

The agency I've chosen to DM with (UTD) does not have an affiliated shop within 45 miles of me and in LA/SD commute, it's nearly impossible for me to get there on a work day regularily (or irregularily without busting into my vacation hours).

There is a reason for this..no mass public recognition.UTD may be a good agency,produce good dive leaders, but the public knows of PADI usually and from a business standpoint if you ran a business and wanted to be successful in todays market,as difficult as it is today,would you not go with a more recognized agency?

Given this info, I have the following questions:

1) What are some ways that an independent DM can be successful in the dive community using his/her responsibilities?

Hook up with a instructor that teaches for the agency you certify as a DM for.

2) How can I best approach a shop to hopefully convince them to allow me to work for them? This is important, I really want to work for a shop. But I have chosen UTD as a training agency for a reason, and most shops will not allow me to DM for them if I don't wear their gear on official functions. None of the shops around here carry some of the gear (BP/w, long hose, can lights, gear configuration in general) nor offers training to that end. Also, they are not familiar with the training, configuration, and philosphy that I practice; this style of diving seems foreign to them.

Probably never happen. Being a DM for UTD does not mean you can assist as a DM in a PADI conducted class. Must be a PADI certified DM..As to gear configurations its the LDS owners choice,its his/her business. Most will let you use their rental gear during a class though if your gear is not to their choosing.

Many local shops know me very well, by first name alone, and I dive with many of their staff either regularily or irregularily. But there are still some universal truths: 1) they aren't training me and 2) I don't wear their gear. But there must be a way to affiliate with them, no?

They may know you and you may dive with them but as you said they are not training you.You have to make a decision on WHY you want to get a DM rating.If it is for personal fullfillment then go with any agency that you desire.If it is to be active and assist in classes and perhaps down the road and become an instructor then you know what my answer is.

 

[TSandM]

I don't know about other agencies, but PADI does not recognize anyone as a Certified Assistant unless they are PADI trained.

I totally empathize with your desire to DM with an agency that dives the way you do, but at the moment, I suspect that a UTD DM rating will only allow you to work with UTD instructors.

 

[Peter Guy]

What does a DM do?

a. Work with classes that are subject to the rules of a particular agency;

b. Coordinate and lead dives; and

c. Work on boats coordinating and perhaps leading dives.

If you want to do "a" more likely than not you'll need to be certified by the agency under which the class is being run. As a UTD DM, you'll be able to work with UTD classes.

If you want to do "b" then you can just start your own dive business organizing and leading dives. Of course you may want to convince shops to let you advertize through them which may be an issue!

If you want to do "c" then you need to convince the captain/owner that you are capable.

Both "b" and "c" you should be able to do with your UTD cert -- "a" will be a lot more problematic.

 

[ReefHound]

How do you define "successful" DM?

As stated, you have to be PADI certified to assist with PADI classes. You simply aren't going to get around that.

Most shops I know will bring on an outside DM acceptably trained elsewhere (PADI DM if a PADI shop) as long as they have a need, but they are going to give priority to their home grown DM's and DMC's. That is only natural. They may not want to tell you that *now* because at this point you are a potential customer. They want your training and gear dollars.

As for your diving style and equipment configuration, keep in mind their concerns. One, they are affiliated with an agency and must teach according to agency standards and have their established way of doing things within the parameters of those standards. They don't want some outside DM teaching students (directly or by example) different methods, especially methods not consistent with their agency standards. Two, shops see open water students as potential long term customers who will go on to buy gear from them and take trips with them. They don't want a DM showing off and inducing students to buy gear that the shop doesn't sell. Most shops I know require instructors to teach in shop gear, some extend that to DMs and some don't.

 

[Walter]

I don't know about other agencies, but PADI does not recognize anyone as a Certified Assistant unless they are PADI trained.

I'm not sure "recognize" is the correct word. PADI recognizes other agencies and it recognizes their certifications of all levels. On the other hand, only PADI instructors can certify PADI students and only PADI DMs and AIs can officially assist with PADI classes. That simply makes sense to me. I believe most other agencies have similar policies. As an SEI instructor, I can only use SEI AIs or DMs to officially assist with my SEI classes. As far as I'm aware, only NAUI instructors can use assistants who are not certified as DMs or AIs with other agencies.

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

Look for a independent instructor. I DM for an independent instructor, so I don't have any shop restricitions. She can teach PADI, SDI/TDI, NAUI, and DAN. I am certified through PADI and will do a cross over to SDI which are the two agencies she mainly teaches.

 

[DBailey]

But I have chosen UTD as a training agency for a reason, and most shops will not allow me to DM for them if I don't wear their gear on official functions. None of the shops around here carry some of the gear (BP/w, long hose, can lights, gear configuration in general) nor offers training to that end. Also, they are not familiar with the training, configuration, and philosphy that I practice; this style of diving seems foreign to them.

Their shop, their rules.

 

[leabre]

Their shop, their rules.

True, but ignoring the background info that I felt necessary to provide, I doubt I'm the first DM (not a DM yet) to encounter a situation where trained by different standards than than any local establishment. I'm not complaining about it, I was just acknowledging that I understand how it is. I didn't make my decisions in ignorance (other than not fully understanding how the industry works), but I won't let any obstacles get in my way, either.

To my question #2, for such DMs/Instructors, there must have been a way others have made it work out for them and I'm trying to figure out what some of those ways are. Some of those may even have found themselves affiliated with a shop, I'd like to hear some of those "successes".

I'm not so much looking for answers that tell me it's my own problem for chosing this path so much as I am for those that have been through similar experiences and overcome it.

 

[TSandM]

Look for a independent instructor. I DM for an independent instructor, so I don't have any shop restricitions

Just because an instructor is independent does not free them from agency rules. PADI says you can't use anyone as a certified assistant who is not a PADI DM, AI or Instructor. You have to follow those rules if you are a PADI instructor, or you are in violation of standards. I believe it is unclear whether you can be assisted by someone from another agency, if they are not counted toward ratios, but I'd hate to be in a liability situation where something went wrong in the hands of a non-PADI assistant, because I don't think you'd get any support from PADI on that.

The fact is that choosing a niche agency to get a DM rating from is going to limit your teaching options, although, as my husband pointed out, it may not limit your functions in other areas of DMing.