Incident on the Spiegel

[scubadada]

The egg experiment has been widely duplicated, but takes more like an hour...some phones are sending out much more radiation than others, and this is also widely known and admitted by the cell phone companies.

The aspartame issue is a much bigger concern, and better example, due to so many entities being complicit in this massive lie.

This discussion is long over, lets move on ...

No, this discussion is not long over, I base my decisions on reasonable science based evidence and you do not. It's very condescending of you to be so dismissive. I ask again, would you like your physician basing their treatment decisions for you on reasonable evidence or anecdotal experience and intuition. It's your choice, go ahead and make it. Your anti-intellectual approach is far too common these days.

Best, Craig

 

[danvolker]

From Hoax Busters:

According to this message it is possible to cook an egg by placing it in between two call-connected mobile (cell) phones. Versions of the message have been circulating via email, blogs and online forums since at least 2006. The version discussed here typically travels as a Microsoft Word email attachment, complete with photographs.

The information in the message is untrue. An article that detailed how to cook an egg with mobile phones was first published on the Wymsey Village website in 2000, supposedly by Suzzanna Decantworthy and Sean McCleanaugh. However, the article was a hoax and the names of the writers were made up. The creator of Wymsey Village Web, Charlie Ivermee, eventually admitted to Gelf Magazine in 2006 that he was the real author of the prank article. He explains that, back in the year 2000, he decided to "add to the silliness" surrounding mobile phone health concerns by penning the piece. He explained to Gelf that he "really underestimated how many people would take it seriously".

During 2006, two Russian journalists, Vladimir Lagovski and Andrei Moiseynko, gave the hoax a whole new life when they claimed to have cooked an egg in around 65 minutes using two mobile phones. Ivermee's original hoax article was apparently the inspiration for the experiment. An article discussing the experiment was featured in Russian publication, Komsomolskaya Pravda. The photographs and text in many of the circulating versions of the story are derived from this Russian article. However, the results of the Russian experiment have never been substantiated and are highly questionable. Others who have tried the same experiment have failed to even warm the egg, let alone actually cook it. The Three Wise Men website details an experiment in which three mobile phones, and several other devices that emit radiation were all combined in an egg cooking attempt that turned out to be a dismal failure. Freelance food writer Paul Adams also attempted the experiment and subsequently wrote about it in a New York Times article. He told National Public Radio (NPR) that, although he left an egg between two cell phones for around an hour and a half, the egg did not cook. Moreover, UK television science show, Brainiac, tried the experiment with no less than 100 mobile phones, but, again, the egg did not cook.

Most commentators agree that two mobile phones simply could not emit enough energy to actually cook an egg. An article debunking the hoax on the Mobile Manufacturers Forum website notes:

[T]he claim that RF energy from two mobile phones can cook an egg in 60 minutes cannot be true as it is impossible for the egg's temperature to rise to a level that will cook the egg. We can demonstrate this as follows: even if you assume that each mobile phone is emitting RF energy at its maximum average power of 0.25 W (based on a peak power of 2 W per phone) for 60 minutes; and even if the total power (2 X 0.25 W = 0.5 W) of both phones was completely absorbed by the egg (assuming it weighs 50 g), then the result would be a maximum temperature rise after 60 minutes of only 13 C. Even if the egg was at room temperature before starting the experiment, the result would still be far below the temperature actually needed to cook an egg (which is approx. 65- 70 C).

In reality, an egg placed between two phones would have a much lower temperature rise because the egg is not thermally insulated and it would only absorb a small portion of the energy emitted.
​

So, although this story has spread far and wide, and some of the sites on which it has been published still claim it to be true, in reality, it has no basis in fact. You cannot cook an egg with a pair of mobile phones.

References:
Wymsey Weekend - Weekend Eating: Mobile Cooking
How to Cook an Egg (and Create a Viral Sensation)
Translated Version: Can I cook the egg with a mobile phone?
Original Russian Version: Can I cook the egg with a mobile phone?
HOW-NOT-TO, Cook an Egg With Your Cell Phone
Take Egg Off Speed Dial
A Hard-Boiled Writer Eggs Himself On
Brainiac - Episode 14: Micro Waves
Mythbusters Fanclub: Cooking an egg with cell phones
Cooking an egg by two mobile phones: Hoax

Well, this makes me feel much better about not getting my eggs to close to my cell phone.....I still believe aspartame is seriously bad for most people, and massive levels or corruption allow this....The FDA among the worst complicit in this, due to their imagined role by the public.
If you guys want to try and make yourself feel better, and convince yourselves that science does not have it's own version of mercenaries, fine....think what you want.

 

[scubadada]

Well, this makes me feel much better about not getting my eggs to close to my cell phone.....I still believe aspartame is seriously bad for most people, and massive levels or corruption allow this....The FDA among the worst complicit in this, due to their imagined role by the public.
If you guys want to try and make yourself feel better, and convince yourselves that science does not have it's own version of mercenaries, fine....think what you want.

That's the great thing about this country, you can think, say, and write whatever you want, even if you are wrong.

Craig

 

[Thalassamania]

Well, this makes me feel much better about not getting my eggs to close to my cell phone.....I still believe aspartame is seriously bad for most people, and massive levels or corruption allow this....The FDA among the worst complicit in this, due to their imagined role by the public.
If you guys want to try and make yourself feel better, and convince yourselves that science does not have it's own version of mercenaries, fine....think what you want.

I agree with you concerning aspartame, I don't care for the FDA's approach to things either. But I hold equal (ok, superior) disdain for quacks flogging miracle substances with no scientific proof.

 

[EastTNDiver]

Tommy, I hope you are still doing well, and hope you get closure on this issue soon (i.e. discover the root cause)...and, thanks for such a detailed report. I will echo others in applauding you for how you have handled this incident. Please keep us posted, as I, as well as many others I'm sure, are very interested to learn what happened. I sincerely hope you are able to continue diving if that is your desire.

I would also like to thank debersole and all others associated with DAN for their continuing efforts in the diving industry. You folks are such a valuable asset to us all!

 

[deepstops]

I think one other thing to consider is that maybe this wasn't DCS at all, (disclaimer: I'm not a Dr. so this is of course just speculation).

Consider the dive. 93', 30% nitrox, 20 min at depth, 3 minute safety stop at 15', and a slow, controlled ascent. Plus, the symptoms started to become apparent at 15'. That last part is what makes me wonder. Sure, someone might have a PFO, be dehydrated or have some other condition that puts them at risk of DCS, but for fairly serious symptoms, (partial paralysis), to become apparent at 15' after a dive that is well within NDL's and then have virtually no symptoms of being seriously bent on the surface just makes me think, maybe something else was involved.

Whatever the case, I'd certainly want some answers before I went diving again. Passing out underwater is generally fatal.

Agreed, I'm not sure at all that this was a case of DCS. Even with a PFO, both the initial and subsequent symptoms are "off the chain" in their severity based on the profile, gas and ascent rate.

That being said, I do think PFO tests are a good idea for anyone considering technical diving and/or has experienced "unexplained" DCS or regularly experiences sub-clinical DCS.

 

[ext545]

Tommy- I had a similar experience while diving in Key West about 3 years ago. It was a 100' dive (not my first) with my wife. She and I did the same dive and came up at the same rate and did our safety stops together. I climbed the ladder, sat down, and was paralyzed in my legs. I never lost consciousness. The boat captain called DAN and was advised to give me oxygen. They administered oxygen and in about 15 -20 min feeling came back in my legs. I felt perfectly fine. They life flighted me to the chamber in Islamorada because the one in KW was closed for repairs. A few hours later and I was good to go. I didnt have any symptoms later that night.

I went to my Doc and he really had no clue.

Question is, will you dive again? There are so few people that this happens to that it is tough to get any info on recidivism that isnt 3rd or 4th hand. I personally haven't gone back out there yet, but, would love to. It's been almost 3 years. I live in FL and my brandy new Zeagle Ranger had only been been under one other time other than that day. I'd love to hear from some people who have gone back out there AFTER a DCS hit (which this was) and what happened.

 

[TommyTutone]

Tommy I'm so glad you are ok, especially bc you are a father & a husband! I actually know one of the people who you mentioned had helped you, Casey. I'm not surprised he jumped in to lend aid bc he is one of the kindest people I know. He is a do'er & if anyone needs help, he finds a way to make it happen, so I'm glad he was nearby. I can't believe, after all you went through, that you remember his name & how thoughtful of you to include it in your posting. His full name is Casey Galaspie...dive instructer by day, super hero by night ...in all seriousness, if I were stranded on a deserted island, I'd want him to be there too. Take care & be safe. --Becca

I do not know Casey personally, but he is a friend of my instructor down there (Tom), who is the son of a very close friend of mine, so small world and all that.

For the question about whether I will dive again. Once I have the all-clear, I am really looking forward to diving again. It will be a long time before I go deep, but there really is still, for me, so much to see and do and learn still at shallow depths that I don't want to give it up. With that said, if I am told that I should not dive, then I will not. This is less about my own self-interest (if I die doing something I love, it's better than growing old in front of a tv), but more because I do not want to put other people at risk. I started reading 'Diver Down' and I had never before considered the risk that I could put other people in when I do this. I take some comfort that this was not an act of stupidity on my part so it was out of my control (as I am still led to believe by everyone), but the thought of someone else getting hurt saving me would be too much to bear.

I went in last Wednesday for a follow up MRI and an EEG, and will be waiting for the results hopefully sometime this week. I received a copy of the MRI to bring home, and while it is good to have a copy of pictures at home, as someone not qualified to comment on them, I am fairly freaked out. There are two sets of pictures that show the back corner, near my right ear and neck, with a fairly large black spot that is not on the left side. I fully expect it is nothing as I would have felt something by now, but it has me jumpy at the slightest headache or any tinge of pain. Add in the anti-seizure medication I am still on, which wreaks havoc with my short term memory, and you'd think I was a dead man walking.

In all seriousness though, there was one thing I wanted to address. I think I had mentioned that we went on this dive as part of our final steps for our Advanced Open Water Certification, something that I was not crazy about, but went along because it was important to the wife. While I cannot see how I can possibly blame the dive company for what happened to me, they did not necessarily put me into any dangerous situation that I did not want to engage in, talking with another diver and doing some reflection on my own, I am really concerned about the level of education that was supposedly provided for the Advanced training. I was hoping to solicit some feedback, as I am considering writing a letter to the company about the educational levels (the owner was not there for the dives):

For our night dive, before we went, the wife and I reviewed the section in the Advanced book, of which we were only given one copy to share between us. I do not claim to remember everything, but I do recall that waving your flashlight wildly meant 'danger' or 'I need assistance'. Our instructor taught us on the boat on the way out that we do that when we see something 'cool' so as to get the attention of the other divers. We did have two flashlights, as they required, and the dive was fantastic, but it made me wonder a bit.

The next day was our navigation and photography. In all fairness, between the night dive ending and the time of the next morning, I did not review these sections in the book right away. The wife and I had only one camera, and our (different from the night dive) instructor said it was fine. The plan was that we would both do our navigation training on the first dive, and the time remaining would be photography for one person, and then the second dive would be photography for the second person. The photography, not a big deal. We were not really taught anything, but I had remembered about the color changes as you go to depth, and we did get some nice shots. The navigation was more troubling. We were refreshed on the boat how to use the compass, which was very handy and appreciated. Once in the water, he had us swim to the back of the boat, counting strokes there, and then back, to use as a guide for gauging current. Then, he had us swim a square, about 10 strokes each way. After we both did that, the lesson was over, the wife went off to take pictures with me in tow, and the instructor took his camera a different direction to take shots. While we did 'fine', I cannot help but think in hindsight, and again, talking to another more experienced diver, that this was sorely lacking.

Lastly was the day of the accident, and there is not much more to say. The first dive was going to be, if everyone was comfortable with it, to do a swim through of the Spiegel. After the first dive, we'd sit up on board for an hour, and then the plan was, again, if everyone was comfortable with it, the instructor was going to take the six of us to penetrate to go see the Snoopy placard. That second dive obviously never took place, and honestly, talking to the wife, we would have not done that, but it is somewhat disconcerting in hindsight that that was going to be planned for so many people who hadn't done it before. I knew the dangers of darkness, and again, we had two flashlights, but I do not recall seeing any reels, and there was no discussion of silt. Now, for all I know, the placard may have been 2 rooms in and perfectly fine and we would have gotten the instruction during the down time on the surface, but after reading 'Diver Down', again it really concerns me that he would have taken six people in there to see it.

Now, with the final dive not occurring (so the wife technically only had four dives to get to advanced) and with no knowledge reviews completed, she was able to get her Advanced certification. On their questionnaire, she was honest with her concerns. I did not get my Advanced, not that I cared, because apparently dives that end in a trip to the emergency room do not count.

I will share the results of my tests as soon as I get them here, as well as with DAN, so that the knowledge can be used for future research. Honestly, other than the medication and the fact that my jogging has been put on hold until the results come back (can't risk a seizure while jogging alone, and then getting sucked up by the kudzu), I feel great. Still, I am torn with what to do with the diving instruction. On the one hand, again, I don't know that I blame them for what happened to me, still working that out, but on the other, they need to be aware, unless I am mistaken, that their education is not up to standards, and in fact, really bad from what I can tell. For anyone who has made it this far through my post, your feedback is very much welcome.

Thanks!

(One quick clarification: Tom, my open water instructor was not involved at all with the advanced training. Tom was amazingly thorough, focused heavily on safety, and had us repeat some lessons that he had initial concern with the first time through. I would recommend very highly Tom to anyone looking to get their open water certification)

 

[Notso_Ken]

Yes, YOU sure can!

 

[PRL]

Well written account. Thank you.

Out of curiosity. As a single dive, this seems well undeserved. But It seems that the days leading to the incident were full of diving activities. In the previous dives, was there anything that could be a precursor that seeded the problem on a deep dive?

And what was the reasoning to say that you were ok, when one arm already was unusable. Was it tunnel vision? Or is it something that instructors should stress to their students to not be afraid to tell the DM that something in fact is not right. I guess, what I'm asking, Knowing what you know now. Would you be able to tell the DM that you are in trouble? Or were you so out of it, that you just gave a preconditioned response without knowing what you really said.

Again, thank you for your detailed incident report. I'm sure it will drive home for most divers, and possibly save someones life. It is not often that we get such a treat.