Incident at Dutch Springs 21 May

[sohnje]

1. Young, novice diver certified only a few moths.
2. Both divers Diving Dry for first time, separates selves from larger demo group.
3. Dive buddy with aggressive expectations of step-sons abilites. (as stated by friends of divers who stated the father "just kept on pushing that kid")
4. Teen made it to surface, was panicked, didn't drop weights, didnt try to orally inflate BC, sunk under surface after not being able to remain afloat.
5. Was not overweighted. Had "O psi" air in tank as indicated by his pressure guage.
6. Was not in deep area of park, 35ft maxdepth. (was brought to pennisula by rescue team, that is where ambulance does pick up and boat can land quickly)
7. Dive buddy 'tried" best effort, found teen already under water without air on his way to surface.
8. Teen non-responsive, pupils fixed when brought to shore, 18 minutes approx without air supply. nuff said on this point.
9.Weather was sunny and fair, 75 degrees, dive conditions good, vis 30-40 ft.
10. All gear was new or in certifed/inspected condition for both divers.

Would like input from these "facts" and looking forward to intelligent discussion about what we can learn from this situation. Would like to see constructive input from fellow divers...particularly to assit novice and experienced divers alike.

 

[ReeferBen]

1. Young, novice diver certified only a few moths.
2. Both divers Diving Dry for first time, separates selves from larger demo group.
3. Dive buddy with aggressive expectations of step-sons abilites. (as stated by friends of divers who stated the father "just kept on pushing that kid")
4. Teen made it to surface, was panicked, didn't drop weights, didnt try to orally inflate BC, sunk under surface after not being able to remain afloat.
5. Was not overweighted. Had "O psi" air in tank as indicated by his pressure guage.
6. Was not in deep area of park, 35ft maxdepth. (was brought to pennisula by rescue team, that is where ambulance does pick up and boat can land quickly)
7. Dive buddy 'tried" best effort, found teen already under water without air on his way to surface.
8. Teen non-responsive, pupils fixed when brought to shore, 18 minutes approx without air supply. nuff said on this point.
9.Weather was sunny and fair, 75 degrees, dive conditions good, vis 30-40 ft.
10. All gear was new or in certifed/inspected condition for both divers.

Would like input from these "facts" and looking forward to intelligent discussion about what we can learn from this situation. Would like to see constructive input from fellow divers...particularly to assit novice and experienced divers alike.

You seem to know a lot more then I have got from this thread. He was participating in the dry suit demo day for sure?

 

[Rescue Diver68]

1. Young, novice diver certified only a few moths.
2. Both divers Diving Dry for first time, separates selves from larger demo group.
3. Dive buddy with aggressive expectations of step-sons abilites. (as stated by friends of divers who stated the father "just kept on pushing that kid")
4. Teen made it to surface, was panicked, didn't drop weights, didnt try to orally inflate BC, sunk under surface after not being able to remain afloat.
5. Was not overweighted. Had "O psi" air in tank as indicated by his pressure guage.
6. Was not in deep area of park, 35ft maxdepth. (was brought to pennisula by rescue team, that is where ambulance does pick up and boat can land quickly)
7. Dive buddy 'tried" best effort, found teen already under water without air on his way to surface.
8. Teen non-responsive, pupils fixed when brought to shore, 18 minutes approx without air supply. nuff said on this point.
9.Weather was sunny and fair, 75 degrees, dive conditions good, vis 30-40 ft.
10. All gear was new or in certifed/inspected condition for both divers.

Would like input from these "facts" and looking forward to intelligent discussion about what we can learn from this situation. Would like to see constructive input from fellow divers...particularly to assit novice and experienced divers alike.

Yeah? Are you posting what you know as fact or your synopsis of the thread?

 

[jar546]

1. Young, novice diver certified only a few moths.
2. Both divers Diving Dry for first time, separates selves from larger demo group.
3. Dive buddy with aggressive expectations of step-sons abilites. (as stated by friends of divers who stated the father "just kept on pushing that kid")
4. Teen made it to surface, was panicked, didn't drop weights, didnt try to orally inflate BC, sunk under surface after not being able to remain afloat.
5. Was not overweighted. Had "O psi" air in tank as indicated by his pressure guage.
6. Was not in deep area of park, 35ft maxdepth. (was brought to pennisula by rescue team, that is where ambulance does pick up and boat can land quickly)
7. Dive buddy 'tried" best effort, found teen already under water without air on his way to surface.
8. Teen non-responsive, pupils fixed when brought to shore, 18 minutes approx without air supply. nuff said on this point.
9.Weather was sunny and fair, 75 degrees, dive conditions good, vis 30-40 ft.
10. All gear was new or in certifed/inspected condition for both divers.

Would like input from these "facts" and looking forward to intelligent discussion about what we can learn from this situation. Would like to see constructive input from fellow divers...particularly to assit novice and experienced divers alike.

1) May have/probably played a roll due to lack of experience. Frequent checking air was obviously a problem, distance from dive buddy questionable, scuba skills questionable.

2) I was under the impression that those doing demos were going out with instructors and not on their own. Obviously I am mistaken. New equipment such as drysuit for the first time (no drysuit class/cert?) should have been limited to the platforms with and instructor(s). Separation from a pre-determined group (if that is the case) compounded the problem.

3) Opinion, subjective. May be relevant, may not be if the "kid" was eager. How about a look at the diver's dive profile, including past dives to see how he was "pushed".

4) Dive buddy location? Training level of diver? Experience of diver practicing skills? Weights being ditched would have been simple, easy and life saving if he was properly weighted. Not having enough breath and panicking at the surface would certainly keep someone from being able to manually inflate their BC. Was this is personal equipment that he was familiar with?

5) OOA appears to be the culprit which again goes back to training and experience along with communication with your dive buddy. If not overweighted then referring back to reason for not ditching weights sooner.

6) Thought weights were found at the top of the underwater island which is close to the surface, approximately 20-25' then it slopes down from there. That area is relatively close to shore, nearer to the DAN & DUI tents so I would expect that there was heavy diving traffic in this area which increases the possibility of witnesses. I just came through this area myself approximately <1 hr before incident and there were other divers coming in the opposite direction. In an earlier dive, same thing.

7) Again, location of dive buddy during the dive? Seems to be one of the biggest issues in diving. How far do you want to swim to find your dive buddy when OOA? I don't think that positioning of dive buddies is stressed enough during initial training. (I am both PADI & SSI)

8) Water temp was 40's at depth, low 50's near the top of the island. As any medical professional knows, you are not dead until you are warm and dead, especially for a cold/fresh water drowning. Diving dry may have contributed to the decreased chance of resuscitation if it kept his body temp warm and did not flood.

9) Good information. Vis was not an issue but in high traffic areas, it was. Did he overheat himself getting ready to dive dry due to the sun and heat? I personally had to dip into the water a few times to cool off in my drysuit between dives.

10) Most importantly, now that we know it was in good conditions: Was he familiar with the gear?

I hope that I am responding to known facts and not here-say.

 

[openmindOW]

1. Young, novice diver certified only a few moths.
2. Both divers Diving Dry for first time, separates selves from larger demo group.

Sohnje, I appreciate your contribution to this Thread. Thank you.

Where did you obtain these facts? I don't doubt you, but we have to assure the accuracy of every fact we rely on.

 

[tddfleming]

1) 2) I was under the impression that those doing demos were going out with instructors and not on their own. Obviously I am mistaken. New equipment such as drysuit for the first time (no drysuit class/cert?) should have been limited to the platforms with and instructor(s). Separation from a pre-determined group (if that is the case) compounded the problem.

Jar:

Our whole family did the DUI Demo Days last year at Rawlings. Which I think this was. Anyway, how it worked here was you could buy tickets at your LDS that was selling them or you could buy tickets at the quarry the day of. We bought our tickets through a LDS and did our Demo with them. The day went like this: hurry up go down and get fitted with everyone else that is waiting in line (this takes a while, hot and just a long wait depending where you are in line. Daughter and I were dead last). Get harrassed by everyone in the water waiting for you to get fitted and your gear on (they were in the water for close to an hour waiting for us). Since we were last, we missed the intro stuff about dry suits. Dive down to platform, disconnect your inflator and reconnect, do a flip to get air from your feet then go out on a swim following our leader from the LDS. They went down to the plane, which is our deepest part of the quarry. I stopped myself and daughter from decending to that depth, as she was 12 at the time, we were just certified a month before and only had in a few extra dives since OW. Her and I felt rushed, heavy from all the added weight, neck seal was uncomfortable. I stopped us at 50ish feet and we slowly returned for the surface. This was to get an adventure dive, which we did not get because we did not go down to the plane with the whole group. I did let the DM know that we were surfacing. If you did not have a LDS to do this with, once fitted someone from DUI would take you out for a test spin. None of the above was DUI's fault, it was all the dive shop, the large group they had, everyone getting fitted at the same time, along with other wanting a test dive. Actually DUI was great to us. We even ran into the guy that dressed my daughter and myself at the Baltimore Dive Show and he remembered us. I think that had something to do with Dee and Dumb though. As we are connected at the hip.

I have no idea how this kids dive went, but ours was very rushed and confusing. Nothing like getting ready to dive and the feeling of being rushed takes over.

DUI could see I was ready for a meltdown of being rushed and was great with telling me not to worry about everyone else to just let them wait.

 

[FWADIVER]

the drysuit demos in general seem to be a royal clusterfusk. I swear i saw a dozen people pop their fins off from putting too much air in the suit this past weekend. To be honest the way they rush people thru them I'm surprised there aren't more accidents associated with them.

 

[sohnje]

1) May have/probably played a roll due to lack of experience. Frequent checking air was obviously a problem, distance from dive buddy questionable, scuba skills questionable.

2) I was under the impression that those doing demos were going out with instructors and not on their own. Obviously I am mistaken. New equipment such as drysuit for the first time (no drysuit class/cert?) should have been limited to the platforms with and instructor(s). Separation from a pre-determined group (if that is the case) compounded the problem.

3) Opinion, subjective. May be relevant, may not be if the "kid" was eager. How about a look at the diver's dive profile, including past dives to see how he was "pushed".

4) Dive buddy location? Training level of diver? Experience of diver practicing skills? Weights being ditched would have been simple, easy and life saving if he was properly weighted. Not having enough breath and panicking at the surface would certainly keep someone from being able to manually inflate their BC. Was this is personal equipment that he was familiar with?

5) OOA appears to be the culprit which again goes back to training and experience along with communication with your dive buddy. If not overweighted then referring back to reason for not ditching weights sooner.

6) Thought weights were found at the top of the underwater island which is close to the surface, approximately 20-25' then it slopes down from there. That area is relatively close to shore, nearer to the DAN & DUI tents so I would expect that there was heavy diving traffic in this area which increases the possibility of witnesses. I just came through this area myself approximately <1 hr before incident and there were other divers coming in the opposite direction. In an earlier dive, same thing.

7) Again, location of dive buddy during the dive? Seems to be one of the biggest issues in diving. How far do you want to swim to find your dive buddy when OOA? I don't think that positioning of dive buddies is stressed enough during initial training. (I am both PADI & SSI)

8) Water temp was 40's at depth, low 50's near the top of the island. As any medical professional knows, you are not dead until you are warm and dead, especially for a cold/fresh water drowning. Diving dry may have contributed to the decreased chance of resuscitation if it kept his body temp warm and did not flood.

9) Good information. Vis was not an issue but in high traffic areas, it was. Did he overheat himself getting ready to dive dry due to the sun and heat? I personally had to dip into the water a few times to cool off in my drysuit between dives.

10) Most importantly, now that we know it was in good conditions: Was he familiar with the gear?

I hope that I am responding to known facts and not here-say.

Thanks for an excellent response, exactly what i was looking for. Info is not speculative except for overheard comment. I am always surprised how information about an incident often becomes so distorted so quickly, but nothing was really announced after situation, and everthing got very quiet in park after the incident.

I also like comment about how close a dive buddy should be during a dive. I beleive this is not often stressed enough in training and is often missed in pre-dive briefings. Even for myself, when not with students, I cant remember the last time I talked to my dive partner about staying "x" amount of feet near each other. I always assumed that is vis is low we stick closer together and this happens with expereince, but this never enters into our conversations anymore. Question is what if it's not a regular dive buddy or someone who assumes differently. This situation could definately increase risk.

 

[Cave Diver]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Sticky: Special Rules

(6) If you are presenting information from a source other than your own eyes and ears, cite the source.

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There seems to be some confusion among other members regarding the content of a few posts. Please clarify whether the source of these presented facts is personal observation or second hand information. Thank you!

Info is not speculative except for overheard comment.

1. Young, novice diver certified only a few moths.
2. Both divers Diving Dry for first time, separates selves from larger demo group.
3. Dive buddy with aggressive expectations of step-sons abilites. (as stated by friends of divers who stated the father "just kept on pushing that kid")
4. Teen made it to surface, was panicked, didn't drop weights, didnt try to orally inflate BC, sunk under surface after not being able to remain afloat.
5. Was not overweighted. Had "O psi" air in tank as indicated by his pressure guage.
6. Was not in deep area of park, 35ft maxdepth. (was brought to pennisula by rescue team, that is where ambulance does pick up and boat can land quickly)
7. Dive buddy 'tried" best effort, found teen already under water without air on his way to surface.
8. Teen non-responsive, pupils fixed when brought to shore, 18 minutes approx without air supply. nuff said on this point.
9.Weather was sunny and fair, 75 degrees, dive conditions good, vis 30-40 ft.
10. All gear was new or in certifed/inspected condition for both divers.

Would like input from these "facts" and looking forward to intelligent discussion about what we can learn from this situation. Would like to see constructive input from fellow divers...particularly to assit novice and experienced divers alike.

 

[Rescue Diver68]

the drysuit demos in general seem to be a royal clusterfusk. I swear i saw a dozen people pop their fins off from putting too much air in the suit this past weekend. To be honest the way they rush people thru them I'm surprised there aren't more accidents associated with them.

Whoa nellie- has this accident officially been associated with the DUI Demo?