Incident at Dutch Springs 21 May

[a22shady]

This incident really spooked me. I dive with my sons, both are adults and good divers. I purchased 6 cuft bail out bottles this week, had them equipped with hoses and pressure guages. The tec divers have a lot of distain for the smaller bottles. In my view they are small enough to take along easily and big enough to give you plenty of time for you and your buddy to organize a nice relaxed ascent.

I never want to be in that fathers position.

Something is better than nothing but the reason to avoid the "Spare Air" or smaller bottles is the limited capacity. I realize this is an emergency only option as is my pony when we dive (Aluminum40) Yes the bottle is bigger but it's about nuetral in the water and after couple dives you don't notice it. But hypothetically if your down at 60' and have an issue you will go through that bottle pretty quickly if your making a normal slow ascent/Safety stop or may run out. Thats the reason I dive the 40 most use the 30 is that with that amount it give you enough gas to make a safe normal ascent from your depth and do a safety stop or possibly deco stop if reqired and exit the water safely without being in a rushed situation. But again the 6Cft is better than nothing having some air is better than no air but again you would be making a rather quick ascent up if this was to occur at 60'. I would reconsider if your thinking safety and at a minum go with a 19cft bottle.

 

[rpowton]

It seems this thread is getting a little off the intended track and people are speculating about what could be done to prevent the issues of running out of gas.
It seems to me by monitoring your gas there is no reason to run out at a reasonable depth in the quarry.
For rec diving you can always reach the surface directly and should be able to inflate a BC manually and ditch weights.
If the root cause is OOA and everything that then follows leading to a rapd ascent and the inabaility to inflate then this is really sad and totaly avoidable.
My kids are always monitoring gas and have been told that if neccessary we will surface, inflate BCs and then surface swim. This has not been neccessary.
Yes we can all use a swing bottle as a backup and have practiced this but it should not be neccessary with proper monitoring of gas and planning of the dive. Spare air is an insurance but isn't the answer.
They have also been taught to be responsible for themselves and their buddy when diving.

 

[matt_w]

To respect the request by the eyewitness to keep this positive and proactive, I'd like to offer, yet again, the link to Bob Bailey's article on gas planning.

Although remembering to orally inflate and drop weights is important, once you have dug yourself into a hole, staying out of the hole in the first place is the most effective way to be safe. Aside from the rare catastrophic equipment malfunction, there is simply no excuse for running out of gas. I know I don't sound sympathetic, but after six years on this board, I've gone through profound sadness and have ended up in rage, that so many people die for this completely avoidable reason. I don't know if teaching the material in Bob's article in OW would change anything, but I sure wish we could do it.

It is impossible to say this enough. Ditching weight and inflating the BC are important. Loss of gas was the ultimate cause, although we can only speculate what caused that.

It sounds like both divers were on their dry suits for the first time. Having both divers distracted and task loaded can be a recipe for disaster. While many may wonder about the need for an instuctor for tha first dry suit dive, an experienced mentor might help you from becoming too distracted.

 

[divenutny]

This incident really spooked me. I dive with my sons, both are adults and good divers. I purchased 6 cuft bail out bottles this week, had them equipped with hoses and pressure guages. The tec divers have a lot of distain for the smaller bottles. In my view they are small enough to take along easily and big enough to give you plenty of time for you and your buddy to organize a nice relaxed ascent.

I never want to be in that fathers position.

Herbdb - This accident happened because the diver was inattentive, did not check his air. His father was also inattentive, did not monitor his son's air. I doubt you will have that issue. I dove regularly with my son who started diving when he was 13. I monitored his and my air. I'm sure you do the same. Also, practice your OOA skills with your kids.

BTW - I agree that a 6 cu ft is too small. I use a 13, which I should replace with a 20. Either way, I agree with your thoughts of providing a backup to avoid this type of issue. When you become a tech diver, you can sell it.

 

[DandyDon]

I considered the larger sizes, but decided against going bigger although the cost difference is minimal.

My reasoning was that my sons and I are more likely to use a smaller less obtrusive tank. Although smaller, it is for emergency use only, not part of gas planning. I don't ever intend to get into Tec diving and will always dive with a buddy within recreational limits. So using it for solo diving self rescue is unlikeky.

Some would say it is overkill and unnecessary for a well trained disciplined diver. They may be right, but I decided not to take the chance. I really feel bad for the father of this young man.

Well, if carrying smaller ponies will encourage you to carry them on dives, ok. 6 cf is not much when caca hits fan, but it's a lot more than nothing if you have a gas failure for whatever reason. A couple of years ago I arrived too late to get my pony refilled after the flights, then screwed up and stupidly went OOA at 50, without a buddy or anyone else close enough. :silly: All pretty dumb. I did ok with the Cesa but 6 cf would have been nice.

If I have a gas failure and buddy failure both at 130 ft tho, 6 cf would mean rapid ascent still. Then there are the short fills, loosing a few Lbs from handling during a week, etc. If you're happy with 6 tho, it's more safety than most dive with.

 

[ReeferBen]

I know this is not a spare air thread but in this case it may have helped. Fwiw http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/watersports/4254403

I thought that article was a decent honest assessment of a spare air, which are 6 cf right. Of course if he was panicked, and not looking for an octo who's to say a pony would have made any difference. I still think the best solution to all this beside the obvious know your gas levels at all times would have been more practice with buddy procedures, distance buddy breathing etc...

 

[DandyDon]

I know this is not a spare air thread but in this case it may have helped. Fwiw Spare Air Is Reverse Parachute of Scuba: Test Dive (With Video) - Popular Mechanics

I thought that article was a decent honest assessment of a spare air, which are 6 cf right. Of course if he was panicked, and not looking for an octo who's to say a pony would have made any difference. I still think the best solution to all this beside the obvious know your gas levels at all times would have been more practice with buddy procedures, distance buddy breathing etc...

They did make a 6 cf, but all I see now is 3 cf and a 1.7. Spare Air - the smallest redundant SCUBA system available with enough air to get you to the surface in an out-of-air emergency. No further comment here.

I don't think a pony or other bailout would have helped in this accident since he failed to ditch weights or orally inflate - two important skills to drill.

 

[NJScubaDoc]

This incident really spooked me. I dive with my sons, both are adults and good divers. I purchased 6 cuft bail out bottles this week, had them equipped with hoses and pressure guages. The tec divers have a lot of distain for the smaller bottles. In my view they are small enough to take along easily and big enough to give you plenty of time for you and your buddy to organize a nice relaxed ascent.

I never want to be in that fathers position.

A 6 cuft cylinder is good for inflating your drysuit with Argon. Getting you out of an OOA situation...why skimp on the volume? Diving with a 30 cuft pony, backmounted with a bottle buddy (I suggest the Bottle Buddy 3) is not really all the cumbersome. You can even sling it and it is usually out of the way.

Regardless of whether you choose to dive with a pony or not, you need to practice using it to begin with. Become comfortable with switching regs and being confident to do so. This will lower the chance of onset panic, and that is always a plus.

 

[Tortuga68]

WTF has pony volume got to do with the incident? It appears the issue was gas management, not equipment failure - so a pony is not an appropriate solution. I don't know why it's even being discussed here, we already have enough threads on ponies

 

[scubadobadoo]

IMHO the problems started long before the ooa situation. Even From the little we know, the avalanche of task loading is evident and it usually is in these unfortunate threads. Sure, ditching weights, pony bottles, and all can stop the avalanche but why try to stop it half way? It's easier to stop it before it starts.