In Response to "a Unified Dive Industry"

[RJP]

I will. I don't buy 4bucks because their presence (in my tiny mind at least) has caused several local coffee shops to go out of business. I really liked those coffee shops, so as a nod to the small business owner I do not buy commercial coffee. Plus it is 4 dollars a freaking cup RJ, I mean give me a break here

So if the coffee at Starbucks cost the same as the mom and pop store, you'd still buy at the mom and pop store, right?

In fact, I'm gonna bet that if starting tomorrow Starbucks lowered their price to 10 cents LESS than the mom and pop store, you'd still buy from mom and pop. Probably go a block out of your way to do so in fact, right?

So you get some emotional value from buying from mom and pop. And apparently that emotional benefit has some actual "dollars and cents" value that can be quantified.

Every product and service we buy provide a functional benefit and an emotional benefit. As a consumer you unconsciously - or sometimes consciously - determine how much value you receive from each component and then decide overall whether the product is worth the asking price.

PS: Do you know where most Starbucks patrons bought their coffee before Starbucks opened? Trick question: most of them didn't buy coffee anywhere! In fact, did you know that Dunkin Donuts sells significantly more coffee now than they did before Starbucks came on the scene. How can that be? Because it's not about the coffee. (HINT: Starbucks doesn't sell coffee!)

 

[Leadking]

Lee,

You've been doing this for a while, how do you see how things are going in diving? I'm curious what views your experiences have given you.

The diving industry is and has been in trouble for a long time. It is why I got involved with DEMA back in the early 1990's. There was a demographic wall coming toward us the likes of which we had never seen before. During the baby boom generation, all one had to do was open a dive store and foot traffic was enough to keep it going. We, as an industry NEVER learned to compete with other activities. In the early days there was not much to choose from, now, bicycling, water bikes, four-wheeling, and on and on. Not to mention the drain of time/money on cable TV, internet, and video gaming. Discretionary dollars once spent on leisure activities outside the home are being sopped up by the modern age. Which of us, when you add it up, is not spending $200 or more per month on cable/internet/cell phone that didn't exist a generation ago.

At Divers Alert Network we analyzed our membership and realized that if we wish to ensure that our services are available to future divers (and better services) we had to restructure the organization which is now in progress. Positive things are happening and my outlook for DAN has never been better.

Change is happening! The industry will not go away but may not be what it could. Is it too late? I don't know. The resources (money) that were there at one time is now gone and most are struggling. I do know that I was never one to lie down and accept my fate willingly.

I hope the industry can communicate and co-operate without name-calling and derisive behavior. We need a CEO that can guide us all in a turn around and not allow us to be distracted by the unimportant issues. The industry, made up of strong individualists, may not be up to the challenge, but I like a good fight!!!

 

[RJP]

For those of us who are conscious buyers (and try not to be manipulated sheep) it is about the coffee, or the car, or the service, or the beverage ... or the diving. But I will grant yout that is not most people and even conscious buyers can be caught in the, "it not about the ..." trap when they are not paying attention (and who can pay attention all the time?).

Oh Thal, you've brought a tear to the eye of this jaded marketer!

Not because I'm sad. It's a tear of joy! The mere fact that a smart guy like you thinks you're not being lead like a sheep is just more proof that our evil plan is still working!

I mean, really? Do you think the products that "conscious buyers" buy are not specifically TARGETED to people who think of themselves as "conscious buyers." That you've not been specifically profiled, carved-out, labeled, targeted, and reeled in? That we're not playing to YOUR ego and sense of self esteem too? Please! The head of marketing of the company that positions itself as "the low-cost, value brand" went to the same MBA school as the guy who heads up marketing for "the high-cost, elite brand." Both do the same market research to determine what buttons of yours to push to get you to reach for your wallet. We test logos to make sure they don't look TOO fancy, evaluate different colors to make sure we get the feeling just right. We use inexpensive LOOKING and FEELING packaging materials so you THINK you're getting even more value. (Sometimes that actually costs MORE per unit, but we know we'll make it up in volume!)

Hell, you guys are often the biggest rubes going! Seriously! All we need to do is knock the price down a few cents, and we're done? Hell, at least the folks who buy Rolex and Lexus and Starbucks make us work for their money. "Conscious buyers" on the other hand?

 

[Slonda828]

So if the coffee at Starbucks cost the same as the mom and pop store, you'd still buy at the mom and pop store, right?

In fact, I'm gonna bet that if starting tomorrow Starbucks lowered their price to 10 cents LESS than the mom and pop store, you'd still buy from mom and pop. Probably go a block out of your way to do so in fact, right?

So you get some emotional value from buying from mom and pop. And apparently that emotional benefit has some actual "dollars and cents" value that can be quantified.

I can see that. I would pay 5 bucks for a coffee to support a local business in lieu of drinking corpo-coffee. You are absolutely right. So do smart guys like you figure out things like emotional value when marketing stuff?

 

[Scott L]

I'll have to disagree... We've just completed our second year in business - signed a new lease and we're the only dive shop in our market (that I'm aware of) whose 2009 sales topped 2008.

No sense posting stories about us that no one wants to hear or cares about... that's not what this thread is about and I won't turn it into a Hooray for Off the Wall thread...

The issues are too important. Those of you in the Baltimore market already know what we're doing. For those not in the Baltimore market - specifically dive shop owners out there reading this thread... here are some things you can do to drive all these caring customers to your store... build it, and they will come:

1. Have an internet presence. No need specifically to sell on the internet, but you must use google adwords, free campaigns, and other web driven ways to be at the top of the search engine for your local market. No one uses the phone book anymore, they search scuba on the web... be it google, yahoo, msn etc... Spend a few bucks on this and it will come back to you tenfold.
2. Match every internet seller on price... even if it means lower margins. The word of mouth doing this brings you in your local dive community will pay off.
3. Offer web shopping right on your showroom floor. When a customer is browsing, trying things on etc... pull up the price of the item on the cheapest web seller sites, show the customer and then beat the price - buy just $1.00 is all you have to do. Give them more off and they'll never go anywhere else
4. Embrace the internet, love the internet, don't bad mouth the internet
5. Stop using the terms gray market goods etc... no one cares
6.Greet every customer instantly upon entering the store, then let them shop uninterrupted. Greeting: Hi, I'm Ken - What's your name? (get reply.) the say, Welcome to (your store name,) if you need any help just let me know, I'll be happy to answer any questions you have. IMPORTANT - Every Customer.
7. Don't just certify them - befriend them. Don't hound them to take specialties or buy gear. Certify them, befriend them and invite them to dive with you whenever and wherever you or your staff are going diving.
8.Give stuff away - lots of stuff. Spend some of your advertising dollars on divers instead of putting it in the hands of newspapers, radio, tv or even the internet. Simply giving good customers - even the not so good customers on the spur of the moment... they're looking at something - really like it - but don't have the money - GIVE IT TO THEM. Deduct the cost from your advertising budget.
9. Put diving in front of as many people as you can. Talk about it everywhere you go to anyone that will listen. Invite them in to try scuba FREE.
10. Price things in your store. Price it intelligently. Don't price gouge. Where possible - blow people away. If your cost on an item is $50... and LP or someone else is selling it for $100... sell it for $70. This tiny profit will bring the customer back time and again... and they'll tell all the divers they know!

There is so much more we do... and I'm willing to share it with anyone who is willing to transform themselves from a shop of yesterday - into a shop of tomorrow.

I'm not out to make a gazillion dollars like the greedy I so like to talk about. I'm out to grow the sport... make an honest fair living... and teach others how to do the same.

I've shared just a little of what we do.... This is why we're the dive shop of the future... and this is why manufacturers, the big internet sellers, other LDS's and consumers are paying an awful lot of attention to us...

Peace

In the absence of national/regional industry advertising the above business model is about all anyone can control. I used to have an instructor that would work the phones in inviting me and many others around the year 2000. You know what? I dived over 125 dives per year with his operation and made many friends that I still dive with. There are lots of great charter boats around here but none that goes that extra mile that the fellow above does or my former instructor that is now retired. A bit of hard works always pays dividends...

 

[RJP]

So do smart guys like you figure out things like emotional value when marketing stuff?

I've already said too much!

 

[Scott L]

I've already said too much!

Are you two going to take a dinner break? The thrilla in Manilla round 56.

 

[Ana]

Not because I'm sad. It's a tear of joy! The mere fact that a smart guy like you thinks you're not being lead like a sheep is just more proof that our evil plan is still working!

Darn!!!! I'm painfully aware of the truth of your words. I joke with my husband about it, packages get me all the time. Lately I lowered my purchases to about 50% or less and preferably things that get used not things I have to dust, just because I realized I have too much crap and I want to reduce my possessions to move from the huge house I live on now, to the tiny place I already purchased. But I have to buy on line, going out and touching the package makes thing difficult.

I realized the degree of my problem in a work trip to Korea. One day without the local translator just walking around, found this thing and held it, not a clue of what I had in my hand, couldn't even tell the price because I only know thanks in korean. the shop guy noticed I was clueless and started saying all kind of things, still not a clue. But I pull a handfull of bills from my pocket (less than $50) and the man took 2 of the bills and gave me some coins back. Still today I don't know what I got, but the package did it.

RJP, you know what is happening, can you make objective purchases or do they get you too?

 

[RJP]

RJP, you know what is happening, can you make objective purchases or do they get you too?

Purchase decision-making is a largely irrational process; no one is immune!

 

[Leadking]

PS: Do you know where most Starbucks patrons bought their coffee before Starbucks opened? Trick question: most of them didn't buy coffee anywhere! In fact, did you know that Dunkin Donuts sells significantly more coffee now than they did before Starbucks came on the scene. How can that be? Because it's not about the coffee. (HINT: Starbucks doesn't sell coffee!)

If competition is bad, why is there a Burger King within eyesight of McDonald's.

Here our local supermarkets are Cub and Rainbow, again usually within sight of each other. Something else is driving the market!