Improve the EFR Course?

[TMHeimer]

I've heard that EFR courses tend to vary. Some are even 2 nights as opposed to one.
This has been my experience:
Original course: Taken in '06. Class discussion basically covering the important points in the book. Written test ("What are our grades?"---"I don't know, the symptoms of the major illnesses/injuries are so similar I just pass everybody"). We did the rescue breath/CPR on the dummy. Did AED. No video. Nothing at all on bandaging. This course in New Jersey. Cost: $100.

Review course: Taken in '09: Video. Class discussion on video. Same 10 minutes with the dummy. No written test. No AED. Again nothing on bandaging. This course in Nova Scotia. Cost: $90.

My routine: Since the orig. course (and before it), I highlighted the important spots in the book. During the classes I noted other stuff, like exactly what you do when you find the dummy in trouble--proper steps. Daily (well, at least 9 out of 10), I skim over 2 pages in the book. I feel this keeps me ready for anything--not just diving. What if my wife has a heart attack today?


I have read that the review course is less extensive, which in my case was true.
It is recommended that you renew your certification every 2 years, and it is required when you become a DM (my only reason for renewing).

It would seem that for my renewal course, I paid $90 for a video and discussion (about basically what's in the book, which I know back & forth), and 10 minutes with the dummy.

It would also seem that (especially for someone with good reading comprehension), a fairly quick review of the book would easily get you through the review class. Even if you forgot everything about the dummy, it's all reviewed in class and you do it until you get it right. That doesn't mean you can do it 2 months from now.

Thoughts on possible changes:
1. Standardize exactly what is to be taught. PADI does this a lot with many courses.
Should the "review" course be different?
2. Have a written test every time you take the course. Covering the whole book.
3. For dive pros, require a renewal of cert. every year at least, possible every 6
months? --maybe overkill.
4.If the review course consists of the written test and 10 minutes dummy, charge a
lot less, as there is much less in class teaching time.

What do you guys think?

 

[knotical]

Two other candidate options:
- Find a more conscientious instructor to do your updates.
- Become an EFR instructor yourself.

 

[TMHeimer]

Two other candidate options:
- Find a more conscientious instructor to do your updates.
- Become an EFR instructor yourself.

There's only one LDS for basically the whole province. I am giving some thought to becoming an EFR Instructor once I finish DM.

 

[azchipka]

Courses are only as good as the instructor teaching it. PADI has listed recommended content for the efr course, doesn't sound like either of the ones you took followed them. Sounds like the absolute min only. Personal my efr course is conducted as the full circuit include adult, child, and infants. We cover CPR, First Aid and AED's. I also introduce every student to what is in a standard boat first aid kit and oxygen kit.

Have to say I agree with the other poster if you think it should be done better become an instructor and make it better.

 

[smurf doc]

Is this EFR course any different than the American Red Cross First Aid and CPR course? Granted the last time I taught that stuff was back in college (1995-1999), but I don't think it was $90-100. Even if the full course was that much, the renewals were invariably cheaper. If it is the same/equivalent course, see if you can get it done cheaper through the American Red Cross. I believe National Safety Council has a similar course also.

If this were to be something specific to diving, then it doesn't make sense to include infants. Similarly it should incorporate what we practiced once a year when I worked EMS: rescue breathing in the water, and backboarding in the water. Or is that part of rescue diver course?

Sorry. I'm just confused. Either way, renewals should be cheaper.

 

[Tug]

I looked into crossing over to EFR (I've been a Red Cross instructor for somewhere between 8 and 10 years, or maybe more) and decided against it due to cost and other issues.

I think that your best bet would be to become an instructor. In the past years I have taken first aid and cpr training through Jeff Ellis, the Red Cross, the YMCA, the Boy Scouts and informal training with EFR and the American Heart Assoc. When teaching I teach to the Red Cross standards but expand upon it depending on my audience.

As for becoming an instructor I would look at different agencies and pick which one works best for you. Personally in the US I like the Red Cross but only since the latest ECC updates.

 

[Tug]

Is this EFR course any different than the American Red Cross First Aid and CPR course? Granted the last time I taught that stuff was back in college (1995-1999), but I don't think it was $90-100. Even if the full course was that much, the renewals were invariably cheaper. If it is the same/equivalent course, see if you can get it done cheaper through the American Red Cross. I believe National Safety Council has a similar course also.

If this were to be something specific to diving, then it doesn't make sense to include infants. Similarly it should incorporate what we practiced once a year when I worked EMS: rescue breathing in the water, and backboarding in the water. Or is that part of rescue diver course?

Sorry. I'm just confused. Either way, renewals should be cheaper.

Current Red Cross classes start at $50 in my area, less for refreshers. With the latest updates from the 2010 ECC the Red Cross offers digital downloads of all their materials to save on cost.

 

[reefduffer]

Consider the Red Cross (Standardized by US DOT) Emergency First Responder course.
First Aid/CPR/AED - Professional Responders

In early 2010, mostly to meet the prerequisite for PADI Rescue, but also because we know we should have done it years ago, my wife and I took the Red Cross First Aid/CPR/AED course, one (short) day. We were dissatisfied with the thoroughness of training. Neither of us had any real First Aid/Medical training, and we didn't feel like we came away from this course really prepared to apply much of it. Very superficial.

So we inquired whether there was anything with more depth, and got pointed to the First Responder course.

This was a 45 hour course, five long days. Being retired helps. It was also offered as evenings, more sessions. In our area, this is a prerequisite for the beginning EMT course at the local community college, and with the exception of one guy needing the First Responder cert to be an ocean lifeguard, the rest of the students were pre-discharge Marines already signed up for EMT training and intentions of careers as Paramedics and Firefighters. Some of it, by its nature, we probably will never have a reason, or access to the gear, to apply (e.g., dropping a nasal airway). But we thought it was a well-spent week.

I don't fool myself, with no other training, and no subsequent practical application experience, I'd still be pretty damn shakey giving CPR, using an AED, or clearing an airway. But we did feel like we crossed a couple of "aha" boundaries in understanding what we were supposed to be doing.

The Emergency Response cert is for three years, the Professional CPR/AED is two, and the Oxygen and Pathogen each one year. While we have no practical need to keep any cert current, we both agree we intend to take it all again in 2012. Maybe a little more of it will sink in the second time, and repetition wouldn't hurt. I see from the website that the Response course will be revised in summer 2011. So we may learn some new stuff.

So if you're dissatisfied with the entry-level stuff in the PADI EFR course, rather than re-engineer that, consider taking something designed to have more depth.

I see questions about cost. In San Diego 2011, the cost is $230.

 

[TMHeimer]

reefduffer, Point well taken. Maybe a dive pro could respond with the PADI standards listing what SHOULD be covered in the EFR course?

 

[knotical]

reefduffer, Point well taken. Maybe a dive pro could respond with the PADI standards listing what SHOULD be covered in the EFR course?

Not the standards per se, but topics manually extracted from Instructor Guide (any errors are mine):

Primary Care: -
Scene Assessment
Barrier Use
Primary Assessment
CPR
Choking Adult
Serious Bleeding
Shock
Spinal Injury
Recommended – AED and O2
Optional – Care for Children

Secondary Care: -
Injury Assessment
Illness Assessment
Bandaging
Splinting