Image ownership & credit

[OHGoDive]

this is the kind of stuff that only happens in law school finals



without any legal precedent of any kind that i am aware of, i would argue that whoever looks through the viewfinder and snaps the picture is the author

unless, of course, they agree to split authorship rights ahead of time

if you don't want someone else to own a picture, don't hand them the camera to snap the picture

Probably why I didn't study law...

Well, as an overwhelmed rank novice underwater photographer, if I were a lawyer, I'd argue that pressing the shutter is the smallest part of creating that image. If I had to choose one and only one author of the image, it'd be the guy who did all the hard work.

 

[H2Andy]

hey, it'll be interesting if a court ever decides this issue to see which way they go

 

[bladephotog]

a quick spin through intellectual property:

intellectual property belongs to the AUTHOR of a work (i.e. an image) and is protected by copyright (i.e. the right to prevent others from copying that work).

when someone takes a picture, he or she is the author despite whose camera they are using. the owner of the camera has no right to copy the author's work without the author's permission.

however, these rights can be modified by contract. for example, newspapers or t.v. stations may share the copyright of the image by contract, or they may outright take over the copyright. it just depends on what the author agreed to when he/she took the job.

generally speaking, and absent a contract to the contrary, the owner of the copyright over the work belongs to the author of the work, i.e. the person who created the work.

please contact an attorney qualified to practice in your area and familiar with intellectual property issues

Thanks for the info Andy, especially the info that rights can be modified by contract. That's why is extremely important that photographers, amateur or pro, read the fine print when entering any contests, or selling your photos for publication. There are some unscrupulous people out there that use contests and the like as a way to grab rights. Don't enter any contest that requires you to give up any rights to your photos to the people holding the contest.

 

[justleesa]

Andy, please post in the other copyright thread....

 

[Warren_L]

without any legal precedent of any kind that i am aware of, i would argue that whoever looks through the viewfinder and snaps the picture is the author

unless, of course, they agree to split authorship rights ahead of time

I wonder, though, if you are talking about being an author, is it more than just the final step of imprinting the image onto the sensor by framing and clicking the shutter? If you compare the process of taking a picture, which includes finding the subject matter, physically setting up the equipment, picking the proper camera settings and getting to the proper location and position, then the person clicking the shutter only has a relatively small part in authoring that photo, so does that entitle that person to the entire rights of the image?

Consider if I were to come up with a magazine article. I did the research and background work, came up with the concepts and approach to structuring the article, and then we both sat down to put it into a computer. I then dictate what is to be in the article and you type it in, does that give you full rights to the article since you entered it into the computer?

 

[Diver Dennis]

Aaaah. Nice twist Warren, very good point.

 

[bladephotog]

I wonder, though, if you are talking about being an author, is it more than just the final step of imprinting the image onto the sensor by framing and clicking the shutter? If you compare the process of taking a picture, which includes finding the subject matter, physically setting up the equipment, picking the proper camera settings and getting to the proper location and position, then the person clicking the shutter only has a relatively small part in authoring that photo, so does that entitle that person to the entire rights of the image?

Consider if I were to come up with a magazine article. I did the research and background work, came up with the concepts and approach to structuring the article, and then we both sat down to put it into a computer. I then dictate what is to be in the article and you type it in, does that give you full rights to the article since you entered it into the computer?

You know the first paragraph describes how many studios operate. The person pushing the button still holds the copyright. Likely because they employ the others and are the one in charge. But where would they be with the others? Personally I'd have no wreck photos if it weren't for the captain taking me there. But I did pay for their services.

Your second example is interstesting but it's easy for me to see that the person typing for you is going to get disappointed when you rightfully stamp your name on the end result.

 

[OHGoDive]

Consider if I were to come up with a magazine article. I did the research and background work, came up with the concepts and approach to structuring the article, and then we both sat down to put it into a computer. I then dictate what is to be in the article and you type it in, does that give you full rights to the article since you entered it into the computer?

No, as the typist was not involved in the creation process, that was all your original thought. Had you called me up and asked me to provide you two paragraphs that you then included in your article, then yes, we're in it together.

Where the point of contention comes into play is whether or not framing and clicking is considered part of the creation process of the image. Andy says this has not been addressed by a court, and I believe him. It seems to me that it would be part of the creation of the image, but, apparently it's never been tested.

If you think that it might be an issue, sign an agreement beforehand, or consult your local copyright attorney.

 

[H2Andy]

Consider if I were to come up with a magazine article. I did the research and background work, came up with the concepts and approach to structuring the article, and then we both sat down to put it into a computer. I then dictate what is to be in the article and you type it in, does that give you full rights to the article since you entered it into the computer?

no, that would make every dictated letter the intellectual property of the secretary/typist

but it's a good point that more is involved in taking a picture that simply pointing and clicking

however, i believe that a court will find, for simplicity's sake, that the author of the image is the person who physically took the image

i guess that the image is ephemeral in time. only someone there, at that moment, could take that particular picture, and the end result will depend on how you frame the image (you could cut the head off), or if you get it off-focus, or if your hands shake, or whatever... you will have created the image that ends up being taken

whereas any typist can take down your dictation of a poem, for example, and it'd still be the same poem

in other words, authorship is active, not passive. taking a picture in the moment is active authorship.

taking down dictation is passive. you make no contribution to the final product other than type what you are told

 

[Warren_L]

i guess that the image is ephemeral in time. only someone there, at that moment, could take that particular picture, and the end result will depend on how you frame the image (you could cut the head off), or if you get it off-focus, or if your hands shake, or whatever... you will have created the image that ends up being taken

whereas any typist can take down your dictation of a poem, for example, and it'd still be the same poem

in other words, authorship is active, not passive. taking a picture in the moment is active authorship.

taking down dictation is passive. you make no contribution to the final product other than type what you are told

All good points. However, I guess then the point of contention would be how much involvement would someone have when I hand off the camera.

My situation, though not necessarily representative of everyone else's situations, is really one where I have set everything up from the packing of the camera, selecting the lens, in-camera settings, and strobe settings. And because I don't shoot manual focus except for some macro work, I set the autofocus mode and focus area, this takes the focusing aspect out. I also shoot fixed focal length prime lenses, so this takes any zooming element out as well. And if I hand off the camera to my buddy at a specific spot during our dive and move into position for him to shoot me, have I not effectively framed the shot myself given that in almost 100% of the times, I will be in the center of the shot and I can adjust the "framing" of the shot through cropping of the image after the fact?

I will concede, though that in this scenario, there is some involvement of the buddy in the framing process, certainly beyond that of a simple typist as in my previous example, but by virtue of the positioning of the camera and my moving myself into the frame and then cropping the final product after the fact, much of the setting up of the framing was done by myself? Certainly there is still some involvement, but minimal at that in my opinion. Again, I don't know if this is enough to warrant full rights and ownership of the final image.