I'm a cave diver; but is this gauge in bar or PSI?

[subsequentially]

I took a guy diving a couple of weeks ago who told me he was getting pretty heavy into cave diving. He had some nice gear, a wing and extra long hoses etc etc, a nice girlfriend buddy too. We then done a normal dive to 24m on air. As the guide I asked for remaining air at every 15mins. When I turned at 45 minutes to check on air the guy had his buddy on his occy, she was out of air. I checked his air to realise that he had only 500 psi left too, at 18m. Despite the fact I had been monitoring their air it turns out they hadn't realised they were using gauges in psi, the guages were their personal equipment, they thought they were reading bar so signalled 100 bar remaining when they actually had only 1000 PSI (1000 bar, I know). Is there somewhere we can advise other dive centres to be vigilant when we recognise divers who don't really know what they are doing. Like name and sahme but in a friendly kind of way behind the scenes to keep the pros safe? Prior to entry I managed to notice his primary second stage was only screwed in a quarter of the way, the alarm bells were ringing then. I would not want to anywhere near a cave with this mhdiver and would like to advise others on the need for caution around this individual. However, I am not sure how it works with identifying someone by name on line.

Thoughts from other professionals would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[spectrum]

Sounds bogus to me.

He was pretty heavy into cave diving and his girlfriend ran out of air? He had to know what was going on based on needle movement and starting position. I don't know what they had for tanks or relative SAC rates but based on his perceived usage, regardless of units of measure he should have seen her trouble coming. Cave diver(s)... I think not, at least in terms of what would be considered competently trained.

Also, when discussing air signals the units of measure should have surfaced.

Next time listen to those alarm bells.

Pete

 

[Quero]

While it may be that these people were pretty clueless in that they should have been able to see the gauge go into the red and signal for an ascent even if you didn't do so, your complaint about your expectation that they would be giving you pressure readings in bar and their belief that they were giving you readings in psi sounds like a case of miscommunication that could have been avoided by better pre-dive discussion.

In my experience, only people from the Americas have gauges reading pressure in psi, so whenever I'm leading dives with divers from that part of the world, I'm very, very careful to discuss units as well as signalling conventions with them, just to make sure that we're all on the same page. Did you not do this? Anybody can say whatever they want about their dive history, they can kit themselves out with whatever equipment they've got money enough to buy, and having a cute dive buddy means less than nothing in terms of expertise. Did you draw unwarranted conclusions about this diver based only on his big talk, hot girlfriend, and fancy tech-wanna-be gear?

Name and shame for a miscommunication? Sounds pretty extreme to me in view of the likelihood that this was a shared screw up, both on their part and yours.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

That first part only works if the gauge has a red zone Marci. Some of us don't like gauges with color zones. In low vis you can lose the needle's location.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

After diving in bar and metres my whole life I moved to the US for a two year assignment. My first US dive was at Dutch Springs.

Tank pressure in PSI versus Bar was straight forward enough. When the gauge starts way up there and has moved two thirds of the way down, start thinking of ending the dive. The numbers on the gauge didn't matter that much. A person who believes he started with 3000 bar of pressure is not an experienced diver.

Now the safety stop was something else. I did my first few seconds of safety stop at 3 ft before realising why everyone else was way below me. A little foolish of me, but realising I was in an unfamiliar environment and that everyone else was doing something different made it pretty obvious.

 

[Divealpha]

It should not matter if gauges are imperial or metric...If you are a tech or cave diver,you should know/or be aware. Im not either,but I read english speaking forums and pages everyday,and I'm aware.... As a member of this forum, I'm already used to converting feet to meters...and I guess most books and courses are english anyway..
And, I' m not in any way experienced , have only 120+ dives...and as a tec, you will have to read most stuff in the english language,
I prefer my own gear everywhere I travel...though, and my SPG is in bars.....


Sent from my GT-P7500 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Rogersea]

Despite the fact I had been monitoring their air it turns out they hadn't realised they were using gauges in psi, the guages were their personal equipment, they thought they were reading bar so signalled 100 bar remaining when they actually had only 1000 PSI (1000 bar, I know). Is there somewhere we can advise other dive centres to be vigilant when we recognise divers who don't really know what they are doing. Like name and sahme but in a friendly kind of way behind the scenes to keep the pros safe? Prior to entry I managed to notice his primary second stage was only screwed in a quarter of the way, the alarm bells were ringing then. I would not want to anywhere near a cave with this mhdiver and would like to advise others on the need for caution around this individual. However, I am not sure how it works with identifying someone by name on line.

Thoughts from other professionals would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I think that all of the issues cited in your post should have been dealt with in a pre-dive briefing. Where I dive, most DM's check the customers gear and do a pre-dive briefing... Naming and shaming a customer is an exceptionally bad idea, unless it is for some crime that is related to your business transaction..

Cheers,
Roger

 

[Quero]

That first part only works if the gauge has a red zone Marci. Some of us don't like gauges with color zones. In low vis you can lose the needle's location.

Ah Jim, you're picking nits! Regardless of the color, any diver should be able to recognize the that needle is dropping towards a place where the numbers end. (BTW, in low viz, I just shine my light on the gauge, exactly as I would do at night. Problem solved.)

 

[lowviz]

...//...Thoughts from other professionals would be appreciated. ...//...

Could this thread be moved to "I to I"?

 

[Ayisha]

In Egypt a couple of years ago, I rented regs due to the inter-Egypt flight luggage restrictions. I knew they would be in bar and I was ok with that. On the first dive, the DM showed me some numbering sign system I'd never seen before, starting from 100 bar and down, and I nodded ok. I knew and was comfortable with at least two numbering systems, but this was different. She checked another diver's pressure here and there. She saw me checking mine regularly and tapped her gauges and I signalled ok each time. Towards the end of the dive, she found the other diver getting a little low, so she tapped her gauges toward me and I signalled ok again. She tapped again, and I couldn't figure out what her sign for 150 bar should be, so I signalled ok again. She signalled half? and I shook my head, but gave her the ok sign. She signalled she wanted numbers and her system totally escaped me, so I signalled 150 in the basic system I was taught. She shook her head, so I just shrugged my shoulders and showed her. She just laughed and signalled ok back to me.

The DM told us pre-dive when we would be turning the dive and what her signals were, but in the water, I couldn't figure out what 150 should be, but she never showed us anything above 100 bar. When I finally signalled 150 in my signals, I thought she didn't understand but I found out later she didn't think it was correct.

Sometimes we might be confused by something a different way, but as soon as I saw the gauge had a max of 200, I at least knew it was bar and how it worked.
If you're watching the gauges, you can see that the gas is getting depleted no matter what unit you're using.
It might be a good idea to get the client to give you some signals pre-dive to make sure you're on the same page.