I'm 71 and DAN won't insure me -- now what?

[BRT]

Show me the data on this.

Do you really think that the percentage of divers goes up with age and the percentage of incidents goes down?

 

[BRT]

Show me the data on this.

Examples of medical conditions leading to decreased diver safety include obesity, cardiovascular disease, hypertension, pulmonary disease, and lack of physical fitness. Medical information available on the deceased revealed that 51% were obese (BMI greater than 30) and a further 29% were overweight (BMI 25 to 29). Age is strongly correlated with the risk of fatality, with over half of cases identified involving divers over the age of 50. Over 15% of cases were known to involve individuals with cardiovascular disease or hypertension. Even seemingly minor medical conditions such as allergies can lead to significant problems such as middle ear and sinus barotrauma. Furthermore, diving soon after a respiratory illness can lead to inadequate ventilation and cause panic, leading to depletion of the diver's oxygen at a more rapid rate.
Diving Casualties - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[fmerkel]

At 71 my MEDICAL costs have definitely gone up. All kinds of age related stuff to deal with. I get that part with medical insurance.

The problem happened about 30-40 years ago when instead of a pool spreading the costs of premiums when we were young to 'get them back' when we were old. Kind of a 401K for medical issues. Then the industry decided to go all capitalist and make a profit. So, court young people, and throw out the old or charge them a hoard even though they paid for years with little use of the system.

You want to see something gross, check the salaries of the top/large medical insurance CEO's. It's another fine shining example of where this kind of thing has gotten way out of hand. They are also one of the top contributors to politicians and very very very heavy into lobbying. I think pharmaceuticals are #1 in this regard, ahead of fossil fuels.

In general I'd say my ACCIDENT costs have gone down. Don't heal up anymore. Simply not willing to take the risks I used to. No one likes to be hurt, but as I've aged it has become something to be seriously avoided.

 

[tursiops]

Do you really think that the percentage of divers goes up with age and the percentage of incidents goes down?

I said nothing about the percentage of divers increasing with age.
My point was only to say that it is not clear that accident insurance should consider only the likelihood of a medical event, even though those may increase with age, because the likelihood of an accident decreases with age, because the older divers tend to be less bold and more experienced.

 

[Lorenzoid]

It is accident insurance that in part covers medical things. The likelihood of an accident is not clearly related to age, even though the likelihood of a medical event might be. Accidents tend to happen more to the inexperienced divers and the foolhardy, not actually the older divers, who tend more to be old rather than bold, and often quite experienced. So there is some counter-balancing going on....the older divers may have more medical events, but fewer accidents....thus the cost of the insurance need not necessarily increase with age.

I see your logic, but my guess is that the actuaries or their bosses have decided it isn’t practical/profitable to make those distinctions. It would be fascinating to see data, though. I can envision a curve on which even the seemingly fit, highly experienced divers start experiencing an increasing rate of incidents as they get VERY old. But the data probably either doesn’t exist, or with dive accident insurance being such a niche product it isn’t worth it to pay actuaries to figure it out, as they might if we were talking automobile driving, where experience and age should similarly be doing some counter-balancing up to some really advanced age. Apparently, the insurers are happy to accept premiums from 90 year-olds in Florida—my aunt drove until age 94, I believe. So where does a dive accident insurer cut it off? Apparently 70 seems like a reasonable point to them.

 

[KathyV]

Does this also affect people who are covered by DAN Europe?

My guess would be "No" because they probably use a European underwriter(s) but here is a recent thread about DAN Europe, perhaps someone on it could advise you.

Scuba Diving Insurance

 

[ThatDogDontHunt]

I see your logic, but my guess is that the actuaries or their bosses have decided it isn’t practical/profitable to make those distinctions. It would be fascinating to see data, though. I can envision a curve on which even the seemingly fit, highly experienced divers start experiencing an increasing rate of incidents as they get VERY old. But the data probably either doesn’t exist, or with dive accident insurance being such a niche product it isn’t worth it to pay actuaries to figure it out, as they might if we were talking automobile driving, where experience and age should similarly be doing some counter-balancing up to some really advanced age. Apparently, the insurers are happy to accept premiums from 90 year-olds in Florida—my aunt drove until age 94, I believe. So where does a dive accident insurer cut it off? Apparently 70 seems like a reasonable point to them.

You are mixing different concepts and then over thinking this. Like alpine skiing, rock climbing and mosh-pitting, scuba diving is a recreational activity that is just a pimple in the actuarial real world.

Some underwriters like to provide exclusions for "dangerous activities" in order to minimize payouts. This gets bizarre enough to sometimes exclude things like renting 4 wheel drive vehicles or scuba diving

The key thing to note is that my 2 examples help to confuse life since they are related to very different (but sometimes confusingly similar) insurance products (think high tops vs stilettos, both footwear, not related).

Please be-aware "dive accident" is not an insurance concept. There is no such thing. I can explain better later as I have to run off now...

 

[ThatDogDontHunt]

My guess would be "No" because they probably use a European underwriter(s) but here is a recent thread about DAN Europe, perhaps someone on it could advise you.

Scuba Diving Insurance

You are correct. They are totally unrelated. Except for 3 marketing letters: DAN.

 

[caydiver]

Don’t know but an issue with DAN Europe is that they need to be notified prior to a chamber ride. If you are on this side of the pond it can mean a delay until someone is there to answer the phone. Would also add the policies of DAN America/Europe/other have no bearing unless you are covered by them. You basically don’t have a choice. It depends on where you live so you need to only worry about what coverage your arm provides you and not muddle it with someone else’s coverage. Bottom line is that if you are an active diver you get the best dive insurance you can. Has nothing to do with health, liability, third party, or anything other insurance. No reason to muddy the waters for others with shoddy finning.

 

[tursiops]

Don’t know but an issue with DAN Europe is that they need to be notified prior to a chamber ride. If you are on this side of the pond it can mean a delay until someone is there to answer the phone.

DAN answers the phone for emergency calls 24/7.