I'll stop with the polls.

[NorthWoodsDiver]

Most of you have seen my polls and have commented as to the lack of reasoning behind them and some have totally bashed the idea. For me this was a quick no hassel way to deteermin in some specifics what other teams had available to them. Right now my team is stricktly volunteer and thus everyone brings their own equipment with the exception of the aga masks. We all have varried opinions on what is good, bad, etc. and we have only seen a couple other team both of which had nothing in commom with what I pictured as the standard PSD gear. My biggest reason behind the polls was to see where everyone fit into the picture.

I understand that socal divers and minnesota divers and floridian divers are all gonna need a variation in equipment but the basics should remain close among the industry. By basics I mean things like vulcanized rubber suits, weight belts, BP/W, Aga masks with comms, spring straps on the fins, etc. But what I have come to find out is that more often than not teams for what ever reason are not completely standardized among members no with other teams even in the same basic geographical locations.

I'm sorry for the bombardment with polls with out an explanation as to what I am looking for. I promiss the numbers in the polls are going to good use for my bit of research and hopefully I can use this information when constructing gear lists to appeal to the other team members.

I will keep everyone posted but I am shooting for some big money this winter that would pay for a real dive vehicle, complete gear for the whole team, compressor, and who knows what else. I dont mind using my personal gear for some team related stuff but when I need to dive in the real pig $*** I dont want to use my personal gear, ya know.

BTW the team has existed this way for 11 years. Trav

 

[Gary D.]

I’d dump the compressor idea and just strike up a good relationship with your FD’s. Most portable units are way to slow to keep a team supplied and you’re looking at a lot of upkeep and repair costs.

The FD’s should have large units that will handle the job much better than one designed for recreational use.

Other than the cascade systems on the Fire Trucks this is what we have access to.
http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/78800/ppuser/2714

Gary D.

 

[bridgediver]

My biggest reason behind the polls was to see where everyone fit into the picture.

You're not going to see the real picture with a series of quick polls. If you look for specifics you may find answers from people that have used certan items and can tell you what they liked/disliked and how they feel its suitability for PSD is.
Eg spring straps: I LOVE spring straps. One of my most favored peices of gear for sport diving but for PSD they don't work to well, particularly if you need to work in thick muck. The fins need to be on tighter than a spring strap can provide; contrast that with someone who may not even know what a spring strap is. Both of us would not check off the spring straps in the poll but for very different reasons that you'd never know.
BP/W vs jacket. Theres pros and cons to each but there are versions that don't work at all (of either type). I can't identify one over the other without the features in the mix.
Other stuff like mixed gases, stages, HID lights and manifolded doubles. This is far outside the realm of PSD unless your team is REALLY advanced but this is really for tech diving not PSD. (tech divers usually dive in groups and are mostly standardized anyway)

I have to ask, do you (or your team members) know how to use all of the equipment that you're looking at in your polls in a PSD application? If not, getting the proper training should come first and that should lead you guys in the right direction anyway.
A deep trimix sport dive is allot different than a deep trimix zero vis PSD dive.

I applaud your efforts to try and standardize. Its a difficult but important thing and I hope it works for you. I'm not trying to "bash" your methods so please don't take my comments badly. I did try to answer some of polls but others I couldn't because it just isn't that black and white. The polls aren't that much of a distraction and if they really bother people they shouldn't look, right? So create all the polls you want if you think it will help you - I just don't see the data being accurate or useful in this manner.

I will keep everyone posted but I am shooting for some big money this winter that would pay for a real dive vehicle, complete gear for the whole team, compressor, and who knows what else.

If you really are this serious I would hope that your polls aren't a central decision making factor for you guys...


Anyway. Good luck

 

[RICHinNC]

How about doing a poll to see if you should stop?

 

[dittrimd]

North,

Don't beat yourself up too much. I have been on a continual journey investigating all aspects of Public Safety Diving so I know what you are going through. I have been researching all aspects from equipment, training, to team procedures in general. This place has been a great resource and don't be afraid to ask any question no matter how crazy it might seem. We all had to start somewhere and you never stop learing in this business. Sometimes people can be a bit rough when it comes to how we might go about asking questions but don't take it too personal. For the most part you will get brutally honest and very helpful responses to your questions.

I agree with bridge that you polls were not the best way to go about gathering information since what is poplular may not be what is best.

I can tell you from my experience the key is trying to find what works for your dive team. This includes, equipment, training, and operating procedures. Every team that I have seen has a slightly different situation. Not just geography but funding, background, etc. This has been said many times on this board but no one thing works best for everyone. Sure there are now standards in writing but how each team implements them is a very different story.

I would suggest you try to find a person who is in a similar environment as your team. This will give you a good starting point as they have probably already dealt with the issues you will be dealing with.

For example I am a volunteer fire fighter who participates in a county regional dive team completely made up of other volunteer fire departments. Our team has been around since the mid 1970's so it is well established but still in need of improvement. Until recently we were recreational divers doing public safety diving. Our financial support came from our individual departments. Each department had different levels of support. Some did not support the divers at all except for allowing them to participate. They had to buy their own gear and pay for their own training. On the other end of the spectrum my department pays for all of our trainig and is working on purchasing all of our critical safety equipment. I have tried to connect with other teams of similar characteristic and have found a wealth of information. This is not to say that guys like Gary D. (LEO Paid Dive Team), Bridgediver, VABlackwater, BladesRobinson, who are in different environments have not provided some excellent feedback to my questions.

My team is in a major transition phase. We are working hard to move fromrecreational divers to public safety divers. We are working on improving our operating procedures, standardizing our gear and training. Currently most of our active divers are trained either by LGS or DRI. We are working on standards for equipment like fully encapsualted dry suits. 7 years ago our county put out the largest capital expendature for our dive team to the tune of $15,000.00 for 6 AGA masks and OTS comm system. For our situation it is a slow and at times frustrating process so patience is a must!!

For us it is a fine balancing act between improving diver safety and not pricing yourselves out of a job. If we go to our county and departments and say you have to buy all this equipment and training they could say no and that would be the end of the dive team.

As far as your equipment research is considered unless you are going to get a huge grant where you can purchase everything at once I would pic a few items and work on getting all the information you can. In you selection process look at safety items that you can stadardize on.

In the past year I have worked on Regualtor standardization and BC standardization. I spent hours investigating the options and what would work for our team. I currently working on a huge project which is to replace our county support vehicle. These few items alone were and are a huge effort. I did not just go to my LDS and see what they had. I tried to obtain as much information about what type and what options I would need. If you try to look at too many things at once it could overwhelm you and may lead you down the wrong path.

Good luck in you research and if I can be of any help please feel free to contact me. I will be happy to pass along any of the research I have done to you. Also before you make a post do a good search to see what has already been posted there is already a tremendous amount of information on this forum.

Take care,

Mark D.

 

[oem3105]

PM sent.

 

[NorthWoodsDiver]

I just wanted to clarify that many of the things I polled on, like mixed gas, is way outside what we are qualified or intended on doing. Other things like DPV's and SMB's fit into the catagory of recreational gear but in my eyes didn't see any place on a PSD gear list. Those things however have been brought up in the past and a local team I know puts SMB's on all their divers so I wanted to see who else might do the same.


Ya know sometimes you see a diver with something that sees odd or out of place but to them it makes alot of sense well thats how I am with most of the options in the polls. But sometime there is a good reason behind those things that I might not be fully aware of.

Trust me that the polls were by no means what I would run out and buy but many numbers reflect on what I already assumed. Some did not. T

 

[tc]

Might just be simpler to ask folks what they are using.

Our team is not standardized so when I select that AND all the different options we use it kind of messes up the numbers.

And Rich- I already did that.