Lessons I’d like some advice on a junior open water course experience

[P1fantastic]

Hello there, everyone!



My daughter recently finished a padi open water dive course. She’s just 10 years old, and she absolutely loved the water! She worked really hard during the course, but unfortunately, she had some trouble with removing and replacing her mask in the sea. This meant she didn’t pass the course, and she’s quite disappointed.



I was hoping she might have completed enough for the scuba diver accreditation, so I’ve been doing some research since we got back home. I can figure out if she’s done enough for the scuba diver however It’s made me a bit unsure about the instruction she received.



I’d love to get the opinion of an instructor who has experience teaching children. Her course was supposed to be 3 days long, and it included 4 open water dives. We also paid for an extra dive in the hope that she would be able to complete the mask task. I was with her in the water the whole time.



The pool was quite chaotic. It was a heated outdoor pool that was busy with hotel guests, and there were a lot of kids playing around her. It was a bit difficult with all the other kids. She only had 2 hours which was just one session in the pool but completed all the required skills she was shown, but I don’t think she was shown all the necessary skills. In the pool, she was fine with removing and replacing her mask and breathing without a mask. But along with the other skills, they were only done once. She’s a bright girl and a really strong swimmer but only 10 years old, I don’t think the pool one session was enough for her to practice and master some of the skills, especially with all the kids playing in there.



All the open water dives included in the course were beach dives, and they were all at the same location. From the first open water dive, she was being pushed to remove and replace her mask and breathe without a mask. She had only done this once in the pool and wasn’t ready for it. She tried her best, but she struggled, and the more she was pushed to do it, the more difficult it became. The first dive was cut short because she was cold and upset. Her wetsuit didn’t fit tightly.



On the second open water day, she wore a short wetsuit underneath, and she seemed warmer. She was encouraged to try the mask skill, but she didn’t feel ready. We decided to explore the underwater world instead, and she absolutely loved it! She was great under water and even filled and cleared her mask. She was pushed to try again for the mask removal skill, but she got cold and upset so we had to stop.



On the next dive of the day, things were pretty similar. She did some skills like air sharing and was really good with them, but she still struggled with the mask removal. We returned for the final dive of the course following day and she still couldn’t do the mask removal, but she completed some other skills like navigation. I though she now had some mental block preventing her from being able to remove the mask, do the breathing a clear.



I paid for another dive. We bought a snorkel and mask and tried to practice in our hotel pool and the bath but it wasn’t the same as we had no weights etc. We were picked up the next morning and visited a new site for the dive, this time we had to go in via ladder off a wall. I was really hoping she would succeed as it was the last day of our trip. She was supposed to do the weight drop, emergency buoy, and mask removal. We explored first this time, and she was great under water. But when it came to the mask skill, she couldn’t do it. Both myself and the instructor tried to encourage her, but she got quite upset and I just had to stop as it as she was becoming distressed.



She was so disappointed to not have gained her open water certification. She only did the mask removal and no mask breathing once in the pool. She wasn’t given any training with a snorkel or stride entry. A big reason for deciding to do the course is that I thought it would be good for her personal development and boost her confidence. Unfortunately is had an opposite effect.



Now that I’m home, I’ve done some research on other kids’ experiences and found a blog on the PADI site about the skills required in open water. I couldn’t find information on the padi site relating to confined water dives. The PADI blog says that only clearing the mask in open water was required, it didn’t indicate removal and no mask breathing. Some other websites suggest that she should have had more time in the pool, maybe 4 or 5 sessions spread over 2 days, and it shouldn’t have been shared with so many hotel guests, mainly kids playing. Some also indicate that mask removal and no mask breathing are only required in confined water dives.



I paid a lot for her course and for me to do a refresher, which was basically me accompanying her. I’m starting to think that, especially since she’s just a 10-year-old, she didn’t have enough time or training in confined water to be ready and able to progress to open water and complete some of the skills like mask removal and replacement. The environment is so different from the pool. Waves, currents, etc. she didn’t get the course we paid for.



I don’t know if I’m just being negative because she wasn’t able to pass, or if the course wasn’t up to the required standard ? I’d really appreciate an honest opinion from a professional instructor who has experience teaching children and any advice on how we should proceed.



Thanks,

Paul

 

[VikingDives]

It doesn't sound like the course met PADI standards, but it's been a while since I've been a PADI instructor.

If mask removal was the only skill she couldn't do, a supervised diver certification could be issued—she'd have to dive with a dive professional and not below 9 or 10 meters.

You could also request a referral from the original shop where she did her course, and could complete the course with a different instructor.

If you're going to do that, I'd suggest you start all over with the course and do it somewhere warm, really warm - 30+ C would be good. Young kids don't do well with any kind of cold. I usually teach in 16c water, and I won't consider teaching kids at 10 (not just because of water temperature, but that's another discussion).

When I taught for another shop, I taught enough young kids to know that when they're diving in the cold, the only thing they are learning is that diving isn't fun.

Resorts are probably the worst place to get training. There's so many incentives to get you through the course quickly, and I'd bet you could find a thousand examples of bad resort courses here, if you looked.

Find an instructor/shop that teaches in neutral buoyancy and trim - no kneeling. Look for a place that will tell you its minimum pool time. I'd also suggest that you don't go in the water during her confined water training, and wait to dive with her until she's completed the mask removal. Kids that age want your approval so much that I find it detracts from their learning. They are more concerned about impressing (or not) you than they are paying attention to the instructor.

 

[CaptainChris]

Open Water Dive 3 Performance requirement no 8- Remove, replace and clear the mask. Instructor Manual 2025. OW Dive 2 no 9- Clear a fully flooded mask. So mask removal is a requirement.

She could be certified as "Scuba Diver" with the limitation to 12 metres accompanied by a "Dive Professional" since Scuba Diver only requires 3 Confined dives and the first 2 Open Water Dives, so she meets these requirements. It may be a way to go so she can dive and gain experience and confidence and in my humble opinion with teaching youngsters 12 metres is deep enough. Once becoming older and hopefully more mature and physically stronger then they can upgrade to Open Water by completing any missed e-learning and Confined dives 4,5 and Open Water 3,4. If you purchased e-learning it's yours for life so you do not pay again for it. Upgrade cost should include a new PIC for Open Water Certification!

Happy Diving.

 

[Jai Bar]

It is so easy to practice that, you don't need to pay for extra dives or anything.

What you need to do, is go with her in shallow water- it can be even knee-deep:

You go both with a snorkel, but take only one mask for both of you. You lie in knee deep water, and begin searching for coins, wedding rings etc. on the sand. Then she takes the mask off, gives it to you and keeps breathing from snorkel while you get the mask, clear it, have a few breaths before returning her the mask and so repeat.

Not long before she feels comfortable breathing from snorkel without mask and voila, can finish the task and get her certification. You benefit also from practice and with luck at the end of the day you find coins to get you a beer and daughter a milkshake, hot cocoa or whatever.

Since you just snorkel at knee depth no risk whatsoever (no compressed air, no pressure, no problem if she panics or feels uncomfortable just raise the head out of water, and so on), you have some fun and good practice together.

I am not familiar with PADI standards but it is a reasonable request that a diver should be able to remove mask, breath, put back and purge it. Can be practiced as mentioned with snorkel at depth zero, and I recommend every diver to practice once in a while at the end of dive/end of safety stop, remove mask, breath a couple of times, replace, purge, enjoy life.

 

[Landau]

I’m a PADI instructor. 2 hours in the pool seems insufficient to me.

Standard classes at my shop are 5 separate pool sessions. Each is about 2.5 hours total with 1 hour of that in the water and the rest spent on review, pre-session briefing, gear setup, buddy checks etc. The pool time is rented so my goal is always to have all my students geared up, briefed, buddy checked and ready to enter the water the second the lifeguards let us and spend the full hour in the water.

For a 1 student private class I have twice managed to get everything done in 3 hours. Both times for a single, highly motivated adult student.

The PADI standards for the open water dive mask skills are:
Dive 1 - clear partially flooded mask
Dive 2 - clear fully flooded mask
Dive 3 - remove and replace mask

The progression helps students build up to the full remove and replace skill and not start with remove and replace on dive 1.

 

[P1fantastic]

Thanks for the replies, I’ll chase the school and hopefully she will have achieved enough for the scuba diver qualification which requires her to be with a professional.
That’s probably all she needs for now.
If we do go for more lessons, I’ll be a lot more fuel whole go with. I’d assumed a padi 5 star would be good and that the courses would be quite standard

 

[lostsheep]

2 hours in a pool does not sound like enough time.

Padi 5 star doesn’t mean ANYTHING. It’s a nonsense marketing ploy by Padi and one of the ways they prevent shops from teaching for multiple agencies.

Mask remove and replace is not just a requirement for Padi, it’s a mandatory skill for safe diving; she must learn to do it.

10 years old is very young for scuba diving, some 10 year olds are ready and some are not. Only you and her can make that assessment.

One thing I’d do different, I wouldn’t let you be in the class. Find an instructor you trust and get away. Spouses and parents often add stress.

 

[greeniguana]

It's been 39 years since I took Jr. Open water..... but we were instructed to first put a mask ON underwater.

 

[paddydiver]

She should definitely have been signed off as a scuba diver. Honestly at 10 thats all she needs anyway and I was never overly happy signing off kids this young as OW divers. Unfortunately what you've experienced here is fairly typical. Dive courses are very often run to the absolute minimum standard possible. Confined water more often then not is squeezed into 1 extended session in the pool. Skills are 'mastered' by performing them resonably well once. Instructors don't know or are too pushed for time to think about different ways of doing things.
Follow up with the shop. There should be a record of every skill she did, and passed, in the pool and open water, if not the shop is breaking standards. If they are not willing to sign her off (provided she has met the standards) get on to PADI and take it up with them.

I would second the above. Next time she's doing a course stay away until maybe the last dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

She only had 2 hours which was just one session in the pool but completed all the required skills she was shown, but I don’t think she was shown all the necessary skills.

I will join with emphasis those who said two hours is not enough time for the pool session. I could never get a student through all the skills in that amount of time. When I was certified, I, too, had a two hour pool session, and it was not for a long time that I realized how many required skills were skipped to make that possible.

The need to get everything done in so little time puts pressure on the instructor to accept subpar performances, and it puts pressure on the student to get things done on the first try. In this case, I think that pressure led to a sense of panicked "I can't do it!: attitude, and that is what is causing her repeated problems. My career in education taught me that the number one reason students fail at a task is starting with a belief that they can't do it.

I would start with a gentle discussion to make her realize that she can do it, and then she needs to start at the beginning in the shallow end of the pool. By "at the beginning," I mean the whole sequence that was likely rushed for her. The mask sequence is carefully thought out, and the student needs to do each step in the sequence competently before moving to the next. The sequence is partial mask flood, full mask flood, mask removal and replacement.

A lot of people have trouble with the no mask skill because they do it while kneeling. When it is done that way (as it usually is), exhaust bubbles go up the face, often pushing water into the nose. She should instead be in a prone position, as she would be while diving. Then the bubbles pass by the cheek and do not cause a problem.