I was looking for some help buying equiptment

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Considerations before you buy:
1. How often will I really be diving?

2. Does my dive frequency justify purchase and maintence (annual as in every 12 months service) cost? (Purchas price/$40 X Number of days per year you intend to dive = Number of days of diving it will take to "pay for the gear Vs renting it"

3. How certain am I that I will not grow tired of diving an quit in just a few months (hey it happens!)

4. When buying, remember, it is only your life we are taling about so buy qualify (not necissarily the most expensive but quality).

For a computer I like the look of the Oceanic Datamax Pro Plus 2. I don't think I would like wrist mounted computers, and I like the air integrated idea.
When I was buying my euipment on a budget, I purchased a Datamax. I did not get the Plus 2. I wanted the download capability and then talked myself out of it as a luxury and not a need. I was wrong, it is a need, get the downloadable.

Why did I buy Datamax? Well I bought it because it has a nice large eaisly readable numbers and screen and is Air Intergrated. I was 48 at the time. That was before I knew that Datamax is a VERY liberal dive comuter. Obviously with age this is the opposite of what I needed. But I did not discover that tid bit at the time of purchase. In fact I never thought about some computers being liberal and some conservative. Later, after suffering an undeserved DCI (bent) (and yes, I never violated the computer on that dive, sometimes stuff just happens - 1043 ft in 14 minutes surface to surface with a safe accent and stops at 80, 60, 40 and 20 ft) I switched to SUUNTO Cobra which is also Air Intergrated and conservative. You can even make it more conservative (mine is set on super chicken).

Bottom line is you can get all you gear new by shopping the LDS sale in June for about $1000-1200. Spend money on the computer to get the one you want now and check the type of computations it is based on RBGM Vs the others computation meathods (you decide for you which is best). Some will impose mandatory safety stops and some will not. Some will allow you to program in deep safety stops, others will not.

Personally I love the SUUNTO Cobra and spring for the computer interface, it will help you critique your dive and improve.

Now about Wrist Mount Vs Consol Mount - Consol mount - get a retractable cord to keep it out of the sand. This is what I use and am quite happy with it. Writst - Mount - advantage, it stays on your arm and does not get ditched with the equipment in an emergency rescue. Disadvantage - I was in the dive shop when a diver returned with a writs mounted dive computer he had found while diving - it had only a few dives in its memory and about 1 hr and 45 minuted dive time on the dive he found it on. So they can fall off your arm like a watch and not be noticed right away by the diver.

But above all remember two things -
1. It is ONLY your LIFE we are talking about here, so buy quality. 2. You don't have to buy it all in one day. Renting is fairly cheap. When you travel due to space conciderations you will probably only take your regulator and computer, mask and maybe fins anyway.

I also recommend considering waiting a while before you buy. Having your own equipment is definatly best and safer. But many new Divers quickly decide diving is not their cup of tea, or kids come along, what ever, bottom line is there are a lot of divers out there who only have a few post certification dives and havn't dove in years. My daughter spent $400 on a custom wet suit and has used it 2 x since her certificatin two years ago.

What I am trying to say is my LDS rents everything including the air for $40.00 [Long Beach] (Monterey area is about $65) per day (day is pick up Friday, return Sunday)- how many dives do you need to pay for your gear at $40.00 per day? I DO NOT RECOMMEND buying USED equipment either but that is my personal choice.

The math: I bought all my gear, a custom wetsuit (Aquaflit - I love it) and 2 tanks including a computer for $1,200 new at my LDS. $1,200/$40 per day rental = 30 days of diving to pay for the equipment. I have gone diving 58 days in the past 2 years (for a total of 74 dives) so for me it was good to buy. Or to put it another way, my gear has paid for itself because I shore dive a lot ( an boat when I can) and try to go every week. I should also point out that to be realistic, you hve to add the cost of air to the purchase price as the rental includes the air - so for me it took 34 days of diving to pay for the dive equipment and the air vs renting.

By the way, Monterey in early July will often be about 54 or less and in winter colder.;-0
 
pasley once bubbled...

Personally I love the SUUNTO Cobra and spring for the computer interface, it will help you critique your dive and improve.

I have a vyper and you can get third party computer interfaces for much less. I found one the other day for $45 or you could order the parts and assemble it yourself for $30. Sorry, but I don't remember where I found it, only that it showed up on a search on this board.

Cornfed
 
Thanks for all your responses.
The person that said to save up some more: If there is a compelling reason to buy more expensive equiptment I will buy it. I want the cheapest stuff that has outstanding quality.
Do I really need a cold water reg? The coldest I will be diving is in Monterrey. I was under the impression you don't need special cold water equiptment until it gets colder then that.
My experience is advanced open water with about 15 dives. I've been snorkeling extensively for the past 10 or so years but mostly in freshwater. I do believe I will be trying to go diving enough to pay off the equiptment. My calculation is about 1200/65 = 19 times diving and its paid off. The extra hassle that I have to deal with to rent it also makes it seem like its cheaper to buy it. I would be much more inspired to go as well. I think a boat trip in monterrey is about 85, so spending 150 on a day of diving makes me rethink it a bit more.

For the computer I would want a more conservative one. How are the buttons on the cobra to press underwater?

I'm still most unsure of what regulator to buy. Will the ones I posted be good? Especially the ScubaPro MK2 Plus/R190 Regulator. Or is there a better regulator to buy in the $200 range?

Do leisure pro's bp/wings packages include everything I need or will I have to buy more?
 
Burner once bubbled...

Do leisure pro's bp/wings packages include everything I need or will I have to buy more?

We'll need a little more info to answer. For a BP&Wings you need
- BP (surprise...)
- Wings (surprise...)
- Harness (plain vanilla webbing is cheapest and you don't the bells and whistles of "deluxe" harnesses )
- Single tank adaptor (v-channel with tank straps)

A quick look at the DR stuff on LP suggests they sell all this seperately. I didn't look for any combos so they might be there too.

Cornfed
 
I guess the thing that is confusing me is it doesn't look like the packages have the single tank adaptor or the back plate so I would need to buy that seperate correct?
A sample package is here: http://s1059kxm.leisurepro.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=85745&prmenbr=946

Also my understanding is that the backplate is used for a good deal of your weight. How do you do the weight distribution with the BP and wings? Do you still wear a weight belt?
 
Burner once bubbled...
I guess the thing that is confusing me is it doesn't look like the packages have the single tank adaptor or the back plate so I would need to buy that separate correct?
A sample package is here: http://s1059kxm.leisurepro.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=85745&prmenbr=946

Ok... That link is for the Transpac which is not a backplate. They are similar but not the same thing. The Transpac is a soft harness and the wing straps on to the back along with the tank.

The BP is a hard metal (AL or SS) plate. With a BP you'll also need a harness and an adaptor to attach a
single tank. With the Tranpac you the tank straps directly to the harness. Halycon makes a nice BP/Wing
combo that doesn't need a single tank adaptor but it is pricey.


Also my understanding is that the backplate is used for a good deal of your weight. How do you do the weight distribution with the BP and wings? Do you still wear a weight belt?

A SS backplate is about 6 lbs and an AL is only a pound or too. If this isn't tnough weight you'll still need a weightbelt. The weight of the plate is distributed down your spine and right under your wing. With all your weight around your waist and lift (wing, BC, etc) further up you'll have a tendency to pitch up (head up, feet down).

Hope that helps. If it doesn't I'll try again.

Drew
 
Ok I think I understand now.
I need to buy everything seperately. It seems like it will end up being significantly more then just a standard back inflate BCD.
BP: ~100, wings: ~190, harness: ~30, mounting kit ~90
so it would be about 400 for everything I needed. (Prices are all from dive rite at leisure pro.)
This seems like it is a little bit more expensive then a back inflation BCD. I thought one of the advantags was that this kind of setup was generally cheaper, plus it also is a better overall setup.
Is there somewhere that will sell a package for cheaper?
 
Burner once bubbled...
Both of the regulators I posted were testors choice in the most recent review on scubadiving.com one in the cheapest category and one in the middle category.

You and I must be looking at different reviews. Are we talking about this one? http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/motherofregulators/ I see that they reviewed the Vipers, but they did not make Tester's Choices.

One of the reasons for this may be that the Viper is of an unbalanced design; that is, it's not designed to be a "high performance" reg. Many of the most experienced divers on this board prefer to keep a balanced second stage as their primary, and an unbalanced second stage for their backup, since generally the unbalanced design is less likely to freeflow than a balanced reg (but can require more effort to breathe). Another reason why the Viper might not be a Tester's Choice is because the design exhausts bubbles on one side of the diver's face. This design has been known to be a little strange because it requires a tilt of the head to one side to clear water from inside it. I have no idea whether or not the Viper is afflicted with this characteristic, and I've never dived one... It's just a hypothesis on why the Viper may not have gotten Tester's Choice status. They claim that the Viper rates poorly for bubble interference (bubbles in the vision of the diver).

In reference to your question about "package" deals... Nearly any shop can put together a nice package deal for you. I personally would recommend trying many different rigs and finding out what you like and don't like... Then bringing your favorites to a dealer and asking them to put together a package for you - or buying them at LeisurePro if the price is radically better, and you don't want the extra service/warranty that comes with purchasing them from a brick-and-mortar store.

As someone else mentioned, you don't have to buy everything now... And likely, if you do, you'll only want more or different gear later... So why bother fooling yourself thinking that you're only going to spend a certain amount here, now, and forever? What I'm hearing you say is that you've got $1000 to spend now, and you want that to be "it" for a while... And that you want it to basically cover your needs for a while. Your intent is to purchase a BC, reg, and computer for now with that money.

Why not instead go diving on that money and get some more experience so that you can figure out what you really want? Over time, when you decide on a BC, you can simply pick it up with whatever you have left over. Then you can focus on the next piece of equipment.

That way, you avoid ending up with gear that you hate... And giving up diving because you just blew $1k and your dive experiences suck.
 
SeaJay
Thanks for the reply about the Viper. I have abandoned looking at that regulator, the ones that I was interested in were
ScubaPro MK2 Plus/R190 Regulator or Atomic Aquatics - Z1 Regulator
The other regulator I was considering in a package with a shop that isn't local but is still a real shop with full warantee is the genesis gs 2000 in the review that you posted that I had been looking at the genesis isn't a testers choice. I think the reason for that was that the other regulators had no weaknesses and they said that this model's weakness is a badly marked predive/dive switch. I don't see this as beinga problem do you see any problems.
Do all these regulators work with nitrox?
 

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