I think WetSuits are Safer and Better than Dry suits for the vast majority of divers

[danvolker]

And another example....
I can have Jim Abernethy, or one of my other friends that shoots video, shoot me with freedive wetsuit, halcyon 19 pound wing, and big DiveR freedive fins, over a reef feature like a big coral head....where I do a big kick, and a long glide--and you see how far I glide over the coral head......THEN, at the same place on a 2nd dive, I could be wearing all the same exact gear eccept have on my DUI TLS 350 ( State of the art Drysuit)......When I get to the coral head, you would see the same big amplitude big power slow kick, and then you would see the Glide--which would look more like someone just applied Air Brakes....the glide is maybe one third the distance that I had with the wetsuit on.....this goes to air consumption to swim a given distance, and the time involved in swimming it.....While at the slowest dive pace imaginable for me ( as in Macro diving) will not make a huge difference, as soon as you start a wide angle type of dive, it will.

 

[boulderjohn]

Let's review some of the problems with the drysuit being used by the diver just using it a couple of months a year in winter, and maybe only a total of 3 to 5 times per year....

One common solution for this large group, is to use huge weighting, so that it is easy to get down, and then on the bottom, on putting gas in it, they have so much weight on that as soon as they begin ascending, the air gets blown out of the OVP on the shoulder easily, because the pressure gets high in the suit....if it was a GUE style drysuit diver, with absolute minimum weight on, then little force works to push air out the opv, and only a small addition in bouyancy will cause tyhe drysuit to begin ascent without the diver wishing it....with the advanced skills of a GUE diver, this never becomes an issue, but without this advanced training, most divers need heavy weighting and a head up and feet down posture, in order to facilitate unwanted air build-up in the suit during ascent. Absence of this advanced skill has sent many less skilled drysuit divers feet first toward the surface --like an upside down polaris missile. Not safe!

I was wondering what the purpose of this thread was, and I see that it is a prelude to a commercial.

The problem with dry suits, it seems to Dan, is that people spend thousands of dollars on dry suits because of a perceived need for them and then rarely use them. By the time they do use them, they have completely forgotten their training. They overweight themselves to an absurd degree and have no ability to control buoyancy, less ability than they had the very first day they ever used them. (I teach dry suit classes, and I have seen people on their first day with them, none of whom have been as incompetent as Dan describes as typical dry suit user behavior.)

Ah, but these hapless people have a solution in sight! All they have to do is buy products created by Dan's pet organizations, the only ones that really work. To top it off, they will be further saved if they get training from Dan's pet dive agency--all other training sucks and creates incompetent divers.

Got it!

 

[Wookie]

I was wondering what the purpose of this thread was, and I see that it is a prelude to a commercial.

The problem with dry suits, it seems to Dan, is that people spend thousands of dollars on dry suits because of a perceived need for them and then rarely use them. By the time they do use them, they have completely forgotten their training. They overweight themselves to an absurd degree and have no ability to control buoyancy, less ability than they had the very first day they ever used them. (I teach dry suit classes, and I have seen people on their first day with them, none of whom have been as incompetent as Dan describes as typical dry suit user behavior.)

Ah, but these hapless people have a solution in sight! All they have to do is buy products created by Dan's pet organizations, the only ones that really work. To top it off, they will be further saved if they get training from Dan's pet dive agency--all other training sucks and creates incompetent divers.

Got it!

Bammmmm!

 

[danvolker]

I was wondering what the purpose of this thread was, and I see that it is a prelude to a commercial.

The problem with dry suits, it seems to Dan, is that people spend thousands of dollars on dry suits because of a perceived need for them and then rarely use them. By the time they do use them, they have completely forgotten their training. They overweight themselves to an absurd degree and have no ability to control buoyancy, less ability than they had the very first day they ever used them. (I teach dry suit classes, and I have seen people on their first day with them, none of whom have been as incompetent as Dan describes as typical dry suit user behavior.)

Ah, but these hapless people have a solution in sight! All they have to do is buy products created by Dan's pet organizations, the only ones that really work. To top it off, they will be further saved if they get training from Dan's pet dive agency--all other training sucks and creates incompetent divers.

Got it!

My pet organizations? How about obvious alternatives to your being able to teach half the dry suit classes you like to make money from!!!
Talk about an agenda! I won't make a penny from any rush of divers to thermalutions or any other heated undergarment for wetsuits....but you and many others would stand to lose a lot of revenue if more divers saw that there was a much smarter way for them to dive than with dry suits.

 

[scoobydrew]

i feel like a pawn in a game

 

[tracydr]

And,how much do these heated undergarments cost? I'm betting they cost a pretty penny. What do you use for a backup buoyancy system on your 5-6 hour dives? I seem to remember GUE encourages the use of a drysuit, partially because it provides backup buoyancy in the event your BC fails.
The other great thing about a drysuit- it allows divers to dive locally when a 3 ml wetsuit normally won't. Which diver is more proficient? The local quarry diver or the once a year vacation diver?

 

[JohnN]

i feel like a pawn in a game

Mongo just pawn in game of life

 

[flots am]

In regards to safety in semi tropical to tropical waters---say 68 degrees to 80 degree water, it would be my contention that wetsuits are far better and safer than are drysuits for recreational divers.

80 degrees and shallow? No contest. Wetsuit is fine.

Colder and or deeper? I'll take a drysuit anytime.

Let me know when you find a way to fluff up your neoprene as you descend, or stop wetsuit compression from turning your 7 mil suit into a 2 mil suit @100'+

flots.

 

[HIGHwing]

I'm a big propoent of using equipment matched to the skill level of the diver, and environmental conditions. There are many situations where a dry suit is the only logical choice even in warm waters as it creates a barrier between you and the environment which could also include contaminants, stinging thingies, and obviously long exposures to even "warm" water can be chilling. I might suggest that if you're just making dives in warm uncontaminated water in a recreational context that a dry suit is not critical piece of equipment, but don't rule it out as a convenience item.

 

[Jerry_]

i feel like a pawn in a game

So do I ...

Now, lets get serious:

- Recreational divers diving only in warm water don't need dry suits
- Recreational divers that will use their drysuit 3-5 times a year don't need one (maybe they could skip those dives)

- Anybody else diving regularly in cold water should have one.
(I leave it open to everybody to define what warm and cold is for them).

As tracydr mentioned in the very first reply, getting cold can cause hypothermia.
Hypothermia is a contributing factor to dive accidents.

I, for my part, dive half a year in a drysuit and the other half in wetsuits.
When I was young (some time ago ) I used to dive wetsuits all year long. Nowadays I wouldn't do so anymore.

When diving drysuits, am I having propeller issues? Not at all, others in wetsuits say that they sometimes have hard to follow me (I think this is more about fins)
When diving drysuits, do I have buyoncy issues? Defintely not regularly, maybe sometimes when in very shallow water, less than 5 feet. But certainly my trim is better in a drysuit than in a wetsuit.
Was it expensive to buy a drysuit? Yes it was, but nothing that I have regretted since my first drysuit, and also not compared to buy other stuff that will only apply for half of my dives in drysuits.
When diving drysuits, do I gain in comfort? Defintely yes. Imagine being in a boat or on the border of a lake / quarry after a cold water dive :shivering:

Would stuff as proposed by Dan have the same result or improve my situation compared to using a drysuit? Probably not.
But maybe it is a good undergarnment for a drysuit in srctic conditions