I think it should be "Finders Keepers"

[DMDavid]

What next? Will the Spanish Govt lodge a court complaint against the British because their privateers and naval officers captured their vessels?

Been watching way too many "Pirates Of The Caribbean" movies have we?


I must agree that the salvors should have total claim on property that was found by them.

 

[scubaskipper]

Could it be a new way to finance a bank bale out?

 

[don mccord]

The law of "civilized" western nations (incl the USA) has often held that indigenous peoples had no individual ownership of property and therefore was never subject to the sovereignty of any state prior to "ownership by conquest" by a western nation. This has often been used in Australia against aboriginal land claims and by the US Supreme Court in the case of in the Johnson v. M'Intosh case, (see 21 U.S. (8 Wheat.) 543 (1823)), that held that private citizens could not purchase lands from Native Americans since they did not "own" it until a nation took it.

This legal theory is termed "terra nullius" and thus could be used by a spanish (or even US) court to claim the native peoples did not own the gold until it was acquired by conquest. Therefore the Spanish government may have "good" title to the gold relative to native american or even the claims of latin American countries.

I admit there is a distinguishing fact between land rights and gold rights, but this legal theory can certainly be claimed and possible upheld by the courts.

I am not saying this is right, just saying this is how western powers have supported each other in the past. So to speak Spain is "part of the club" recognized as "owning property," but the Inca people of Peru perhaps not belong to the club of property owners. This has been heavily criticized by legal academia (see for example Prof. Stuart Banner at UCLA School of Law, as "rooted in a Eurocentric view of the inferiority of the Indian people" in "How the Indians Lost Their Land: Law and Power on the Frontier" (2005), p. 11--12).

 

[Jaeger45]

Can we apply this concept to corporations? I think a few corporate bank accounts in Coca Cola's name might not be subject to individual ownership, and thus I'll have to lay claim....

(Facetious, of course)--not an attorney

 

[lexo1014]

Wow lets lose something valueable, give no effort at all to try to find and recover it, wait for someone else to put in time and money to find it,then claim it as our's and expect it to be returned to us.
If these ships that were lost in the 1600's-1800's are so important to the countries that owned them originaly, then why arent they putting forth any effort to find and recover them?
I guess its easier to let someone else do it for you.

 

[DMDavid]

Don't forget that our very own government does it all the time.
Case in point... WW2 aircraft recovered from swamp by salvager/ collector and U.S. Military then demands that restored plane must be returned to them claiming they never gave up their rights to it.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

They only give it up if they have to recover it and do any real work. lazy bastards. Not much different than the so called "academics" that insist that treasure ships be turned over to them to "study" . Kiss my dago butt. Finders keepers. Want to study it. Get off your lazy asses and find it yourself? Otherwise STFU. Same goes for any government including ours.

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

They only give it up if they have to recover it and do any real work. lazy bastards. Not much different than the so called "academics" that insist that treasure ships be turned over to them to "study" . Kiss my dago butt. Finders keepers. Want to study it. Get off your lazy asses and find it yourself? Otherwise STFU. Same goes for any government including ours.

Yea, what he said.
ZDD

 

[BOHUNTER]

To me if its a broken piece of pottery laying on the bottom of the Peace River its an Isolated find. Problem is the Laws of Florida think that if its a broken piece of pottery and absolutely worthless, you cant touch it. Thanks to Judy BEnse and her crusade to ban the Isolated Finds Program (IFP) with her power as the Chairman of the Historical Commission and her brothers influence in office. Last item on the agenda written in, no one knew of the termination of the IFP till after it happened. She stole our rights away as citizens and collectors. My 7 year old finds an arrowhead he has committed a crime and its a misdermeanor. Now do it in a management watershed area and its a felony. There is Absolutely ZERO, accurate data which can be recovered from the location because the context was lost many many moons ago. The Artifact itself has some typology data but all diagnostic materials are gone. The State of Florida lost its ability to save sites when this was passed. The Law says you can not even document a site, photograph a site, or move or touch an artifact laying insitu in state waters. Me fanning the bottom and finding an artifact is today rare. WalMart clearing off a mound and laying asphalt is a high occurance. How does the people with money get around the laws... they write a check to support the commissions and get a signature release. Im fanning and they have a D9!

I am opposed and offended to the Banning of the IFP! <<< No Really I am....

If anyone needs facts on mound distruction with equipment in Florida let me know, I have plenty of references.

BO

 

[FuzzyNutz]

Dang, this is old, but since it's still on the first page of threads: I think it's "finder's keepers" the second the owner stops looking for it. It's one thing to find something and use your discretion to give it back or not, but that's a matter of morals, not ownership. If you don't try to get it back, well then, you lost it.