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radinator:
Well said. (I solo dive at night a lot with a UK1200r Calamari Cooker)
I like your logic.
I Still Get Nightmares!
- Thread starter Marcosis
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Well said. (I solo dive at night a lot with a UK1200r Calamari Cooker)
I like your logic.
Archangel
...
I echo the salient and sage points of Ray and Roatan, and offer that the poor man who passed away probably didnt drown. Of course, I am armchair quarterbacking, but QB'ing as a physician. The corpsman who asked if anyone could read a pulse is telling. The overexertion of this diver could lead to cardiovascular collapse and he in all likelihood suffered a heart attack. Dont take as gospel a quick "drowning" cause of death from any doctor or hospital when it comes to diving fatalities.
Further, on the buddy issue. I have learned in my Global Underwater Explorers Fundamentals training that a buddy is not a buddy, that person is your team mate and your life line under water. . . night time or daytime. Your light his light, your tank, her tank, your computer, his computer, etc. . . . the fact that you saved the guy with the loose cam band is commendable on your part. . .
. . . on his part to his buddy, he failed miserably.
Safety is the inviolate rule of diving. Like the Radinator wrote. . . descend together, ascend together.
Further, on the buddy issue. I have learned in my Global Underwater Explorers Fundamentals training that a buddy is not a buddy, that person is your team mate and your life line under water. . . night time or daytime. Your light his light, your tank, her tank, your computer, his computer, etc. . . . the fact that you saved the guy with the loose cam band is commendable on your part. . .
. . . on his part to his buddy, he failed miserably.
Safety is the inviolate rule of diving. Like the Radinator wrote. . . descend together, ascend together.
thanks missD for the story... pretty scary actually to say the least.
There are a lot of lessons to be learned on this in my view after reading your story :
1) The instructor failed in his duty to do a correct briefing let alone course training, a briefing is not "in, out, put the kettle on". It is the integral part of the dive, and a lot of what happened would not have with a good briefing.
Points which should have been included:
- Buddy pairs
- entry procedures
- dive plan (time & depth)
- 5 point descent on mooring line
- exercises to do underwater
- distinctive sign on the instructor (like a cross chem. or something likeso on the tank)
- Lost diver procedures (search 1mn & surface no ??)
- Emergency surfacing procedures (in the eventuality of a problem.. how do we know when we're down there that we need to surface... what is the signal...)
- Remind people to do a buddy check.
For the Instructor, the choice & decision to call the dive or change the divesite is essential, and with the current, the storm & weather conditions for a training night dive... i'm affraid to say this was a bad call (imho).
For the strap on the diver, you reacted really well. Did you all continue your dive and let him go or did you group together ? The best procedure would have been to search for 1mn and surface... to find his actual buddy having done the same thing after a proper briefing.
Now, for the sake of the diver in the 7mm suit, well maybe someone experienced should have spoken to this person when he was getting equiped ? a rescue diver, a DM or someone to sense a problem ... maybe, just maybe this would have pointed out an issue. Where was the instructor at the time of the stroke when you came back up? should he not have been the one doing the CPR or coordinating the rescue & divers pickup ?
I hope that you still dive, and that you have searched for help if you definitely have nightmares about this. You certainly must find another op charter, because that one seems like it was horrendous.
There is certainly a lot more to say, but i feel that more will come with time... let's start slowly.
There are a lot of lessons to be learned on this in my view after reading your story :
1) The instructor failed in his duty to do a correct briefing let alone course training, a briefing is not "in, out, put the kettle on". It is the integral part of the dive, and a lot of what happened would not have with a good briefing.
Points which should have been included:
- Buddy pairs
- entry procedures
- dive plan (time & depth)
- 5 point descent on mooring line
- exercises to do underwater
- distinctive sign on the instructor (like a cross chem. or something likeso on the tank)
- Lost diver procedures (search 1mn & surface no ??)
- Emergency surfacing procedures (in the eventuality of a problem.. how do we know when we're down there that we need to surface... what is the signal...)
- Remind people to do a buddy check.
For the Instructor, the choice & decision to call the dive or change the divesite is essential, and with the current, the storm & weather conditions for a training night dive... i'm affraid to say this was a bad call (imho).
For the strap on the diver, you reacted really well. Did you all continue your dive and let him go or did you group together ? The best procedure would have been to search for 1mn and surface... to find his actual buddy having done the same thing after a proper briefing.
Now, for the sake of the diver in the 7mm suit, well maybe someone experienced should have spoken to this person when he was getting equiped ? a rescue diver, a DM or someone to sense a problem ... maybe, just maybe this would have pointed out an issue. Where was the instructor at the time of the stroke when you came back up? should he not have been the one doing the CPR or coordinating the rescue & divers pickup ?
I hope that you still dive, and that you have searched for help if you definitely have nightmares about this. You certainly must find another op charter, because that one seems like it was horrendous.
There is certainly a lot more to say, but i feel that more will come with time... let's start slowly.
Archangel
...
Thanks Milk:
Wow, that was a thorough and thoughtful analysis of the above inviolate rules. And I NEGLECTED to also offer; if you are having nightmares about this, please take the advice of these seasoned and experienced divers. . . . get help.
Wow, that was a thorough and thoughtful analysis of the above inviolate rules. And I NEGLECTED to also offer; if you are having nightmares about this, please take the advice of these seasoned and experienced divers. . . . get help.
WalkinPaul
Guest
milkathecow:
Thanks milkathecow for the advise...I printed it out, then literally cut and pasted it into my dive log book. Which in doing that, it gave me an idea. It would be good to have a little reminder section in my dive log that has points to remember that I can review right before a dive. Which I have just now started. Thank you very much Sir. :sprite10:
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is not doing a night dive in a new location that hasn't been done during the daytime.
This may not be as much of an issue for more experienced divers, but with a lot of new divers I think it's crucial for their comfort level.
This may not be as much of an issue for more experienced divers, but with a lot of new divers I think it's crucial for their comfort level.
scubadobadoo
Contributor
Cave Diver:
I agree. It was huge for me to do my first night dive at the same site I had just dove during the day. Really lowered my anxiety level and my wife's.
OP
Marcosis
Contributor
Missdirected...My first new FRIEND!!! Thank You so much for the help instead of insulting my known horrible typing skills.That was Huge!!!I'll keep the stories short until I learn to type!
For the choice of the dive site, you're absolutely right. It seems obvious to me, sorry not to have stated it. you should NEVER go for a dive that you don't know at all by night if inexperienced, that's a clear cut case. i wouldn't recommend it if qualified either... experience does not prevent you from issues on an unknown dive site.
For the briefing points, you can find that in your PADI open water manual, in the part explaining what you should discuss with your buddy prior to diving, and in the last pages of the manual you'll find: dive Check list...
I'll be quite honnest, i'm absolutely shocked by what happened during this dive, the choice of the dive, the events, how it was held and all the procedure seems like a right mess, and it really makes me think about things and about the qualifications or ethics of some instructors around.
Also makes me think about something. Many divers with little or some experience tend to want to lead some friends to diving, to do a discover dive or so, they go & rent equipment, and take their friend diving... without thinking that they have not been trained to do so. They are certain that with an OWD or AOWD level you can do it, with loads of dives or so... but the what if is not taken into account. so please, just DONT DO IT. if you feel like you would like to do it ... take the training classes to learn how, and then you'll not only know how, but you'll be covered by your insurance if something goes wrong (if you respected what you have learned & standards obviously).
For the briefing points, you can find that in your PADI open water manual, in the part explaining what you should discuss with your buddy prior to diving, and in the last pages of the manual you'll find: dive Check list...
I'll be quite honnest, i'm absolutely shocked by what happened during this dive, the choice of the dive, the events, how it was held and all the procedure seems like a right mess, and it really makes me think about things and about the qualifications or ethics of some instructors around.
Also makes me think about something. Many divers with little or some experience tend to want to lead some friends to diving, to do a discover dive or so, they go & rent equipment, and take their friend diving... without thinking that they have not been trained to do so. They are certain that with an OWD or AOWD level you can do it, with loads of dives or so... but the what if is not taken into account. so please, just DONT DO IT. if you feel like you would like to do it ... take the training classes to learn how, and then you'll not only know how, but you'll be covered by your insurance if something goes wrong (if you respected what you have learned & standards obviously).
I had a similar experience diving in my AOW. Just be happy we are alive. Like me, this dive will probably teach you more in the longrun than your entire training to date. Now you can start working to avoid situations like this before they start.
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