I drank the GUE Fundies Kool-Aid and survived!!

[ScubaSam]

Curious if some of you have experienced what I seem to be experiencing and it's only been short of a week since I did Fundies. I'm sure it stems from the large readership/lurkers in this thread and residual from past GUE chest thumpers. Some non-GUE trained buddies of mine either called or PMed to see if I'd still dive with them. I am shocked cause they are good divers and I have no qualms about diving with them even though they may not be GUE trained. With the exception of two buddies, all my pre-Fundies buddies are not GUE trained.

It struck me as odd as I do not believe I've changed other than being more comfortable in the water and more comfortable with my skills. I'm not perfect just much more comfortable than I was pre-Fundies. I had to reassure them that nothing has changed other than I'm more comfortable with my skills in the water.

One PM me that he and I are fine as long as I do not proselytize, so I had to Google proselytize to see what it meant.

1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause

I told him that I had to Google the definition and that I have never done that and will not start to do that so he and I are good. Another told me that I'm the new poster child for the new improved friendlier GUE.... yeah, NOT!

So have any of you noticed a change in those around you post-Fundies?

 

[Rick Inman]

My Fundies class had six divers in it, and I got put with the "these guys are hopeless but I have to teach them anyway" group. We were the three stooges underwater, constantly getting separated, having buoyancy problems, and misunderstanding signals. None of us passed.

Sorry to go back a few pages, but as to this quote... Well.... I was in the "other" group, and I didn't pass! Still haven't passed (never went back for the re-eval). And I think TSandM under-plays her origional skills. But pass, no pass...everyone in our class got the same thing presented to them: The foundation of skills necessary to potentially become a GUE level team diver. What the diver does with those skill sets after the class is up to them. I know of some divers who went through fundies, did not pass and have never cared to apply the skill sets to their diving. Fine.

After fundies I came back to my home town as the only diver in the area with the gears and skills (or potential skills) presented in the fundies class. Local divers and instructors made fun of my kit and my kicks. I had no one to work my skills with and I developed some bad habits that I didn't even know about. Finally, a very experienced tech diver (non-gue) came to town and asked, "Where did you learn all this?" I told him about the fundies class and the GUE divers I've was lucky enough to dive with in Seattle. He took a serious look at the GUE system and began to apply it to his own diving. He was a IANTD instructor who took me trough many tech courses in the next few years, and said that taking the fundies class was the best thing I ever did.

A couple of years later, I set up a fundies class in my town and a GUE instructor came out and did a class for several of my buddies. I got to be the videographer and sit in on all the classes.

Now there are several team divers in our area. My main dive buddy, after the fundies class, became an IANTD instructor, but in the trimix class he teaches, the students get a full dose of team diving. Whereas, immediately following my fundies class I was the only diver doing a (poor) frog kick, you can now see on most days at the popular dive locations, a whole school of divers in BP/W's kicking along in like-minded teams.

Everywhere I've traveled and dived with GUE/UTD divers, I've seen a consistency of skills, equipment and team mind-set that has made diving with new friends easy, safe and fun.

I just finished my CCR normoxic trimix class (to 200'), which makes me a complete stroke for sure. But even diving those stroke-machines, I can't help but try to apply the overall concepts I learned from that original fundies class (and trust me, that ain't easy).

I cannot classify myself as a DIR diver, having never passed any DIR classes and now diving a ccr. But I dive for fun. If it ever stops being fun, I might as well quit and take up golf. And diving with like-minded team divers is (for me) so much more fun. The only thing better is diving with someone for the first time who has never experienced this type of diving, and, following the dive, watch them look curiously at us and ask, "Okay, so how can I learn to dive like that?"

Congrats, Sam!!!

 

[BabyDuck]

well, sam, 'don't dive with strokes' used to be a huge rule. and the definition of stroke at the time was 'non-gue diver'.

i don't think that's as true now, but back in the olden days...

 

[piikki]

I was a terrible mess.

You looked good on surface – and I have the photos to prove it! And it was not so many years ago, you’ve come a long way in short time. I know because it was my first trip to Fl cave country as a newbie, and I’ve only been diving 4 years! (Of course it did not end up being the last even though that time we just mucked around the basins.)

Anyway, it made me remember this funny thing. Perrone was getting ready to go grab the platform in Blue Grotto as we were climbing out of water. At the stairs we tried to make room for this guy with huge camera. I commented what a mother honking load it must be to carry with doubles and all. The guy stopped and asked us how was our dive? We asked whether he was indeed doing Fundies, and he stood there with that 1000 lbs of gear talking to us for >10 minutes until we felt bad for him. He put his hand out and said: “Hi, my name is Jarrod btw”.

I commented to my buddy how his face had looked familiar, vaguely like the guy in that book I have. That was my first encounter with the founder. I have to say he is one of the GUE guys who, as rule, always puts out for a positive GUE encounter. Somehow I seem to bump to him every time I am in cave country. I’ve met my fair share of snobby, snooty GUE representatives but that was my first one… I only saw Perrone second…

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Curious if some of you have experienced what I seem to be experiencing and it's only been short of a week since I did Fundies. I'm sure it stems from the large readership/lurkers in this thread and residual from past GUE chest thumpers. Some non-GUE trained buddies of mine either called or PMed to see if I'd still dive with them. I am shocked cause they are good divers and I have no qualms about diving with them even though they may not be GUE trained. With the exception of two buddies, all my pre-Fundies buddies are not GUE trained.

It struck me as odd as I do not believe I've changed other than being more comfortable in the water and more comfortable with my skills. I'm not perfect just much more comfortable than I was pre-Fundies. I had to reassure them that nothing has changed other than I'm more comfortable with my skills in the water.

One PM me that he and I are fine as long as I do not proselytize, so I had to Google proselytize to see what it meant.

1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause

I told him that I had to Google the definition and that I have never done that and will not start to do that so he and I are good. Another told me that I'm the new poster child for the new improved friendlier GUE.... yeah, NOT!

So have any of you noticed a change in those around you post-Fundies?

There is a common misperception out there that GUE-trained divers do not dive with non-GUE trained divers. It stems from a misunderstanding of what is commonly referred to as "Rule #1" ... which is "Don't dive with strokes".

Some people believe this means "Don't dive with non-DIR divers" ... but that's really not the case. It means "Don't dive with unsafe divers". Unsafe has nothing to do with the agency you received your training from ... it has everything to do with your attitude toward how you dive.

Those who read the article that the saying came from understand what it means ... don't dive with someone who dives beyond their training, who isn't a good buddy, who takes the "my air is my air" approach to diving. These are not agency-specific issues. Every agency emphasizes that point to some degree or another.

Almost every DIR-trained diver I know will happily dive with non-DIR divers under appropriate circumstances, which include consideration of the dive buddy's training, skill and experience level.

Now ... once one reaches the level of doing dives that require decompression, or dives that are in an overhead environment, those considerations become a lot more strict. In those circumstances you will want to dive with someone who does things pretty much the same way you do, because standardization just makes planning and executing the dive a lot more feasible. But once again, it's not specific to DIR. I just spent a week taking NSS-CDS training and those same points were emphasized.

So Sam ... tell your friends you won't be breaking any DIR rules by diving with them. And you won't need to "proselytize" ... once they notice the improvement in your skills they might decide they want some of that for themselves.

Jokes aside ... it's only "kool-aid" if you let it to be ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jasonmh]

...The guy stopped and asked us how was our dive? We asked whether he was indeed doing Fundies, and he stood there with that 1000 lbs of gear talking to us for >10 minutes until we felt bad for him. He put his hand out and said: “Hi, my name is Jarrod btw”...

That is pretty funny

 

[mwhities]

I'm far from being a TRUE DIR diver. Why? Well, I have a handicap and even though I can be a GUE diver, I'll never be a DIR diver.

The standardization Bob spoke of is the reason. 24" HP hose with SPG clipped to the left hip dring... I can't do it. I clip mine off at the left chest dring.

Besides that, I have and will continue to dive with GUE/DIR divers. When I head to the PNW, I'll be swarmed by many. But, "You aren't DIR!".. They don't care. I've been told because of my handicap, I've had the chance to become a "thinking diver". "Thinking diver" you ask? Well, with only having one-arm (left one is gone), I have to think of other ways to do things (hence the example above with the SPG.) because of my handicap. Plus, I have to think about my safety underwater AND my buddies safety.

So that's why they will dive with me. I'm a safe thinking diver. I plan on taking Fundies soon. And Yes, I CAN pass, as long as I do all the skills up to par.. I have an e-mail from Jarrod saying that as long as all the skills are done satisfactory (I doubt all will be....), I can pass. I will not be treated any different than any other student.

So I will dive (even after Fundies and whatever other courses I take from whatever agency) with anyone as long as they are a "safe thinking diver".

(Sorry for the hijack, I just felt I needed to tell my little story as many people still have the misconception that DIR divers will not dive with other non-DIR divers. I have proof in the 100's that they do and will.)

Thanks,

Michael

 

[ScubaSam]

Michael - Thank you for sharing your story. If you're ever in the NY area, you can dive with my local group, Dive NY, they're not DIR either but they are safe divers amd are a hoot during surface interval.

 

[ONESPEED]

well, sam, 'don't dive with strokes' used to be a huge rule. and the definition of stroke at the time was 'non-gue diver'.

i don't think that's as true now, but back in the olden days...

My understanding from those in the know is that is a myth. A stroke is and has always been defined as an unsafe diver, not a non GUE diver. These are the rumors that perpetuate much of the animosity, I.M.H.O.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well, let's hear it from the horse's ... er ... mouth ...

What is a Stroke?
Written by George Irvine

Very simply put, a "stroke" is somebody you don't want to dive with. It is somebody who will cause you problems, or not be any use to you if you have problems. Usually, this is a reflection of the attitude of a stroke, but that can be inherent in the personality of the individual, or others can teach it.

For instance, if somebody is taught that diving is an "every man for himself" sport, that you "can't help somebody deep," that "my gas is my gas," or "know when to leave your buddy," then that is somebody you do not want to be in the water with. Some people are natural strokes, but all too many are created. Unfortunately, people believe best what they hear first, and given the low-level food chain structure of dive instruction, most strokes are man-made, and are then hard to fix.

Obvious strokes are not so bad - you can see them and you know to avoid them. Frequently they will give it away with their choice of gear and gear configuration. If you see something that is a complete mess, makes no sense, is less than optimal, or is designed to accommodate some phobia while ignoring all else, you are dealing with a stroke. If the stroke is pontificating about how he can "handle" deep air diving, or obsessing about depth, or appears to be trying to compensate for internal fears, this is an obvious stroke and you merely avoid them.

The really insidious strokes are those who pretend to be squared away, but are in this game for all the wrong reasons. Usually they wish to prove something to themselves or others, or to overcome some internal fears. These tend to try to do things that they are not ready to do, and when something goes wrong, they flee for their lives.

Diving is not an intuitive thing. It is not a natural thing. Natural reactions of human beings on dry land do not work underwater. To be a good diver, you have to control your natural responses, and know that they can only hurt you, not help you. A stroke cannot do that. A stroke is driven by fear, ego, bull**** and self-concern.

Nowhere in there do I see any mention of agencies ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)