I almost DIED in Grand Cayman!

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I wonder whether people who post this kind of question are aware that it comes across as insulting.

Matt,

Indeed, I know that risk, but I assure you - no insult was intended.

I felt the question was acceptable given the tone of Davezwife's writing, which I found to be a very honest, forthright expression of her true feelings regarding diving. Thus I was curious as to her recollections of basic training; specificallly, did she have such reservations from the outset, and did she make her feelings known to her Instructor, and to her spouse?

As a teacher of this fine pursuit, I try to remain vigilant for those students whose motivations may be influenced by spousal, familial or friendship pressures. It allows me to nip potential problems in the bud. Testamonials from folks like Davezwife just might help me to improve my bud-nipping.

Regards,
DSD
 
Matt,

Indeed, I know that risk, but I assure you - no insult was intended.

I felt the question was acceptable given the tone of Davezwife's writing, which I found to be a very honest, forthright expression of her true feelings regarding diving. Thus I was curious as to her recollections of basic training; specificallly, did she have such reservations from the outset, and did she make her feelings known to her Instructor, and to her spouse?

As a teacher of this fine pursuit, I try to remain vigilant for those students whose motivations may be influenced by spousal, familial or friendship pressures. It allows me to nip potential problems in the bud. Testamonials from folks like Davezwife just might help me to improve my bud-nipping.

Regards,
DSD

Dan,

Thank-you for your even-handed reply to my provocative reaction to your post.

But there are a few other people on SB who might have worded a similar post exactly the way you did and meant it as an insult. In fact, the first reply to my post was by someone who apparently felt that your post was insulting and liked it that way.

"By the way, how did you get certified?" could be taken several ways, including:
  • How did someone as incompetent as you ever make it through the course?
  • How incompetent was your instructor to certify someone like you?
IMHO, it's part of being a human in this world that we have to take responsibility not only for the content of what we're saying, but for how it's likely to be heard.

I would have preferred something like this: "Since after getting certified you were uncomfortable with scuba diving, and psychologically if not intellectually unprepared for the sport, I wonder how your certification course was conducted." And even that could be taken as an insult by someone with sensitive feelings.

What can I say, the human psyche is a mine field. :nuke:
 
In fact, the first reply to my post was by someone who apparently felt that your post was insulting and liked it that way.

:shakehead:

Saying that "some people just want to be insulted" is a recognition of the reality of the 'net. Some folks are always spoiling for a fight.

And then there are those who enjoy provoking people - they are known as trolls.

Your comment in bold above is revealing about you.
 
In fact, the first reply to my post was by someone who apparently felt that your post was insulting and liked it that way.


I can see how Dan's post/question could be taken in an insulting way....yes. But I think it safe to say that most people (myself included) read his post in the context of the thread (and based on his past presence on this board) and did not see it as terribly insulting. You chose to get insulted by it. I am OK with that. As I indicated, there is always somebody that just wants a reason to complain. Did I like Dan's choice of words as you have stated? I had no problem with them because I for one believe the question was a valid question. Again, I chose not to imagine the evil intent that you did which may be why I was OK with it.
 
How did you manage to get certified??

Regards,
DSD

I read the op and it sounds like they experienced pretty gnarly weather, in Belize and Cayman. If one is certified in a quarry or lake, one could do well in the skills and open water dives, but once in the ocean, dark and gray on a cloudy day, with swells from a far off storm or front.....and white caps blowing off the top....and current, whether they noticed that or not. it could be really intimidating.
 
I can see how Dan's post/question could be taken in an insulting way....yes. But I think it safe to say that most people (myself included) read his post in the context of the thread (and based on his past presence on this board) and did not see it as terribly insulting. You chose to get insulted by it. I am OK with that. As I indicated, there is always somebody that just wants a reason to complain. Did I like Dan's choice of words as you have stated? I had no problem with them because I for one believe the question was a valid question. Again, I chose not to imagine the evil intent that you did which may be why I was OK with it.

At the risk of flailing a deceased equine, I shall say this: In essence I agree with Matt - the vagaries of the written word often result in a misinterpretation of intent; usually, I am more circumspect in my postings, and could have been clearer in my original post as to exactly what it was that I was after. Truth is, I was a bit rushed at the time of writing & ignored my long-standing credo of "Amend-Before-Send!" The last thing most of us here want to do is disrupt/derail the flow of discourse through less-than-exact comment.

Best Fishes,
DSD
 
I read the op and it sounds like they experienced pretty gnarly weather, in Belize and Cayman. If one is certified in a quarry or lake, one could do well in the skills and open water dives, but once in the ocean, dark and gray on a cloudy day, with swells from a far off storm or front.....and white caps blowing off the top....and current, whether they noticed that or not. it could be really intimidating.

No argument with the intimidation factor Hank49. Thing is, it concerns me that some folks who, for whatever reason, really & truly don't want the scuba experience, come up with an academy performance to project the exact opposite of their desires, just to please someone else. The net result could be serious grief for one or more of the parties involved, as evidenced by the op's experience. IMHO, this is a conundrum worthy of discussion ( I'm still hoping Davezwife will chime back in on this thread! ).

Best,
DSD
 
Forums are the best place for learning lessons about whatever you like and want to know more about. Many thanks to the OP for putting down in words your experience, so we all can learn from them. I read every post after, to also learn as much as possible from other's experience - thank you to those posters as well.

Even with all those posts, I would like to add one more thought. Nearly all tragedies or near-tragedies are never caused by a single failure. In any endeavor, especially in moderately dangerous situations, almost always there are a series of mistakes, malfunctions or unforeseen problems. Usually the accumulation of these adverse moments leads to very dangerous situations or poor outcomes.

The goal in our everyday life, as well as in these special situations is to listen to our "gut" (which is just slang for accumulated experience, judgement and knowledge) and not "tune-it" out. In nearly all situations, we are with other people and we tend to ignore our gut in group situations because we don't want to be judged, impact the fun/experience of others, feel constrained due to schedule, or we just believe our gut is not logical. In today's environment, where all input is loud, colorful and dramatic, it's too easy to shrug off our own quiet alarm bells. Yet I believe it's this quality - the ability to assess a situation at any point as it unfolds and abort it, or change course of action without much hesitation that really makes someone good at whatever they were doing.

I had always dreamed of learning to fly and took about 12 hours of flight lessons before I accurately assessed I did not have the appropriate multitasking skill set to be a good pilot. But I had a very proud moment during that 12 hrs. I was pre-flighting the aircraft and found something mechanical not to my satisfaction; the Instructor said not to worry about it - it was fine; I said OK. Running through checklist and became apparent the radio was not working; the Instructor said not to worry about it (radio was not required at this airfield); I said OK. As I was running the aircraft out the taxi, the plane had a very weird bounce to it when I applied the brakes; the Instructor said not to worry (light plane, brake rotors a little warped - no big deal). I aborted the flight - there were three relatively minor maintenance issues with the aircraft, but my gut said why would believe there only minor issues? Parked the aircraft and called it a day; lost my hour of flight-time and I'm 99.9999% certain there would not have been an issue, but I also know I made the correct call for my level of risk.

I used to ride in a lot of commercial planes for work and "the best pilot" I ever had was one who "missed" an approach at Miami. We were descending, close to landing and then he applied full power and got back into the pattern to try again. He got on the intercom and calmly said (paraphrasing) "folks, sorry about the slight delay; sometimes a landing just doesn't feel quite right and you always much better trying it again rather than trying to stick a poor landing anyway." You know he took a lot of **** from other pilots, caused delays, etc., etc. - but he followed his gut. I have always thought I would fly anywhere with a pilot willing to "look bad" in order to do it safely.

Thanks again to everyone for sharing and when thinking about accident prevention, remember the little bells going off in your head before things unfold are the ones you should never ignore. Safe and fun adventures, Kevin.
 
No argument with the intimidation factor Hank49. Thing is, it concerns me that some folks who, for whatever reason, really & truly don't want the scuba experience, come up with an academy performance to project the exact opposite of their desires, just to please someone else. The net result could be serious grief for one or more of the parties involved, as evidenced by the op's experience. IMHO, this is a conundrum worthy of discussion ( I'm still hoping Davezwife will chime back in on this thread! ).

Best,
DSD

I think every beginner's class (such as PADI OW) should teach people that they should be responsible for their own safety and not let peer pressure induce them into doing something which they have been taught is not safe. Basically, if it doesn't feel safe, don't do it. I've only been on Scuba Board for a couple months, but already I've read several posts by people who nearly died because they let others pressure them into doing things they shouldn't be doing. For myself, I have felt the psychological pressure from dive masters and instructors to speed things along when I needed more time to get situated. They aren't consciously trying to get me to do anything unsafe; it's my responsibility to speak up when I'm not quite ready. But the temptation is to just go along with the flow and not say anything, because as a newby you wonder whether you're just being trivial. Like, "My mask just doesn't feel right," or "There's something digging me in the shoulder." But now I know these things are important.
 
It is good that I read this old post, the wife and I are spending a week on a live aboard in two months I will be much more sensitive to her concerns as a result of this.
 
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