HP vs. LP / High Pressure versus Low Pressure steel tanks

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Originally posted by MASS-Diver
Posted by Uncle Pug:
"But hey... some folks still have black and white TVs...
And of course some even claim that is their personal preference!"

Ya, but, no one ever died insisting they prefered 8-tracks to CDs. Is this a matter of personal preference? Pug, I know you are big advocate of mixed air diving and I also thinks it's clear that for real deep diving you have to used TRIMIX (unless you have a magic powers protecting you from O2). But, DIR says that eventually air diving will be a thing of the past, is this a money making skeme (see above posts), foolishness, or is the the truth?

Also, pescador775 are you saying I should hold off on that new Halcyon bp and stick with my seaquest jacket?
I really don't see air diving being a thing of the past, too many folk just can't afford mix and others won't spend the extra for it even though they could afford it... and some are just ignorant of the options.

Personally I enjoy the benefits of EAN32 and the expense is slight when compared with the rest of the cost of diving. In fact the extended bottom times and reduced SI actually make diving cheaper when you amortize {total expense/dive time}. Kinda like drysuits for the coldwater diver.

As far as mixed gas (trimix, ect.) the cost is substantial because of the extra equipment and training (beside the gas) but then some of us have found ways to do this. It is nice to be able to see the colors instead of just the black and white... and it is nice to remember the dive.

Personally I have found I feel much better after a mix dive than an air dive. To me... it is worth it. I would rather just stay in the shallows at <60 and have fun than dive the wrong stuff deeper.

Money making scheme??? You've got to be kidding. Who is making the money? Who?

I read the above post you reference and was not surprised at the same old tired song with repetitive lyrics and no real message.

What did surprise me is that you thought the post had *insight*.... shoot if that is what will satisfy you as insightful information... yes by all means keep diving the old Seaquest.

You're disappointing me here MASS... I figured you to be more discerning than that. :shakeno:
 
I agree. Its been hard enough finding a place locally that can and even knows what it is.

I know I should know better but the LDS's push and sell these LP tanks and tout the "+" rating but never say that you may lose that rating or have to jump through hoops to get it back. One LDS when asked even just flat out didn't know you could get the tank "+" rated again. They just told me you lose it at the first hydro. One LDS I talked to does there own hydros but can only do it to a non-"+" rating and didn't even know where they could send it to get the "+" rating back. Divers need to make sure they ask for the "+" rating or they will be surprised when the tank comes back without it and have to pay for another hydro.

Hopefully as these tanks become more popular and widespread getting the "+" hydro done will be easier.
 
Originally posted by retnug
I agree. Its been hard enough finding a place locally that can and even knows what it is.
Well it looks like we do have one guy here in Seattle who knows the score....

BTW I went out and checked all the 104s in my garage and the all have the REE stamp.

Thanks Gunter
 
Sorry to dissapoint you Pug, just trying to keep an open mind, although the more I learn about DIR diving the more I like it. I'm really enjoying reading the DIR book and one thing that really jumped out at me was how much easier it is to breath TRIMIX at deep depth then air. I wasn't really aware of this advantage before reading this book, but, given that I hear about divers on air runing into CO2 buildup trouble at depths as shallow as a 150' (probably due in part to how dense air gets below 100"), this strikes me as big plus for TRIMIX diving.

BTW, I think my seaquest is on the way out in favor of nice bp/wing set-up. Heck, the next thing you know I'll be puttin my 120hps on ebay and getting some steel lps. Also, I'm NITROX certified, but, I know alot of people around here still give me funny looks when they see the stickers on my tanks, and my "main" LDS refuses to fill NITROX becuse they think too many people will disregard the rules and dive deep with it.

Thanks again for the advice
 
Originally posted by MASS-Diver
Sorry to dissapoint you Pug, just trying to keep an open mind,
Shoot.. don't worry... you are not actually disappointing me... that was just a figure of speech... an idiom of moderate hyperbole...

And keep an open mind but just be careful for low flying seagulls...
You don't want just any old thing droppin' in on you...
And there are plenty flying around here...

Discernment is the key... sort through the posts and discard the ad hominem rhetoric... find the salient points, cogent arguments and germane discussions...
 
Originally posted by Uncle Pug
BTW I went out and checked all the 104s in my garage and the all have the REE stamp.
What's their date of mgf hydro?

Roak
 
Originally posted by roakey

What's their date of mgf hydro?

Roak
Four of them were made this year...
The other four 2000...

The number 87.9 is the same on all of them and as Pesky says is the *elastic expansion rejection limit* specific to that tank.
 
I've got a couple 104s mfg'd in 98 and I don't remember any REE stamping on them. I'll look closer tonight.

I do know what to look for, since my T bottles of O2 have an REE stamped on them.

Roak
 
That's right Unk, we shouldn't be making any ad hominem arguments, especially veiled references of the feathered kind.

Mass, you may have misunderstood me about the gas diving. I own PP mixing gear and even have stand by recompression tanks charged with O2. Unk is correct about certain cost tradeoffs. Charging off to some wreck which is 60 miles out for a half hour dive has always seemed a bit disproportionate. If using NITROX will squeeze some more bottom time on your sub, you might want to consider that. I forget what the latest low ball "official" number is but personally, I wouldn't hesitate to make a 120 footer on 32%. Forget the trimix and software, use the NITROX and a computer.

If you decide on doubles for the wreck dives then you will probably have to go to the wings. This choice has nothing to do with the wings or plate but concerns the harness. The traditional harness used on the wing is best for doubles. The wing bags are severly compromised in some areas like storage, surface flotation, drag and snagging but the problem, as well as the whole issue of DIR regulator and hose routing, is not as pronounced with twin tanks. You already have so much bulky gear that the details recede into the background.

Learn the wrecker's technique, follow the reel line so you can ascend from the anchor or tieoff. Carry a snorkel but find some innovative way to stash it. You might locate one of the old rubber J snorkels and attach it to a belt or harness strap with a home made loop made from latex. Use a punch or a hot dowel to burn two holes in the nylon and run the polespear tubing through. Do a good job as the little pipe could come in handy. Plan ahead, if you are also carrying a "goody" bag", clip it off on the opposite side, or at least don't tangle the snorkel in it.

The format for this forum is not conducive to my giving a detailed answer to the question of outfitting or of my "philosophy". Suffice to say, I don't use a lot of the bells and whistles the "tech" divers employ or follow some of the guidelines put out by the teaching groups. I don't consider these things necessary in some cases, and as I have nothing to sell, not being associated with any company or organization, the opinions you hear from me are not second hand or profit driven. I won't profit by telling you to carry a snorkel or to avoid baggy, fin blowing drysuits, argon bottles and pony bottles. And, if you do wear a drysuit, it wouldn't behoove me to say "dump the wings". I just don't believe the currently taught redundancy is necessary. The industry is fascinated with complexity, fear of lawsuits and love of profit. Safety is the slogan.
 
Hi again, MassD. I got the impression that you want to look "cool" in your outfit. Nothing wrong with that. My advice is to wear black. I remember a couple times in the past when a passenger on my boat would say something like "you can really spot the ol' pro's", or something like that. He was referring to my black gear compared to my multi colored buddy(s). It was meant as a complement.

First, there are no "tech" divers or DIR dunkers, only commercial divers and sport divers. Divers are divided by what they do, not what they wear. For example, sport divers may be subdivided into photographers, wreckers, spearos, etc. They may happen to use NITROX or wear long fins or whatever but that is irrelevant except to the diver himself.

Assuming you want to become a wrecker I suggest the following:
Mask: Apollo frameless or Cressi big eye
snorkel: old J type
Fins: Apollo split or Atomic split
Regulator: SP, Apeks, Oceanic or similar high end
Octo: in line AIRSOURCE type (Seaquest)
Weight belt: rubber belt with wire type buckle
Tanks: double 80 HP
BC: wing type with steel plate, max lift, 35#
Suit: Mares Isotherm semi dry or similar
Computer: React (in twin gauge console)
compass Swedish or Finnish made, wrist strap
Knife: 420 steel, 5", inside calf
Gloves: cotton with plastic palms
Whistle: warble type, etc

About single tank BC's: Beuchat makes jackets which have webbing harness rigging to transfer force to the tank. Same principle as wings. The Zeagle Scout is a simplified back inflate. Try on stuff, shop around.

About the belt: this should be mounted outside the crotch strap. Uses plain lead weights and should be set up more or less permanently, weighted to the specific tanks and suit that you will wear. Adjust for snug fit on surface. Hang several brass snaps on it.

The compass, not useful on wrecks? Leave it. That's why it is on a strap. When needed, you need it frequently and don't want to be waving a console around when direction finding.

Single 100's are a better choice for most dives. In this case, something like a Zeagle Scout BC or Beuchat should be looked at instead of wings. Nothing against the QD except it is double bag. Or stick with your Seaquest although you didn't say what this is. Only single bladder vests are compact and streamlined enough. Pockets are optional but increase drag. Rings? Necessary? If your BC will need trim weights, rethink it. Reduce the number of things you need to fiddle with while on the boat getting suited up although I admit, the knife and compass are in that category. The steel plate is a trim component for "wings" and doesn't need packaging or adjustment. Some compromises may be needed. What are your requirements considering the type of diving. Certain tanks, used as singles, are heavy enough to obviate the need for a heavy BC. The Faber 100 HP is an example. All this has to be thought out because once you are committed, there you are.

Try your gear on and get a critique. Look in the mirror and find points which are detrimental to drag and think of innovative ways to improve your kit. Tie off the console to the vest ring.Take the stuff out of your pockets and ask whether you need all that stuff. Stay away from unnecessary complexity. Remember, you have to assume that you are alone down there. However, it is also true that the situations you are most worried about such as "running out of air" will probably never happen in your lifetime. That is what your gauge and watch are for. Problems that come your way will probably be unexpected and unanticipated. The surface is where many of these happen. Good sense and calm reactions are important.

PS: Well, I changed my mind regarding what I can offer, partially. Sorry I can't go into the whys and wherefores but I did feel I should at least give you something to think about.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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