How would you teach a 10yr old to use dive tables?

[psychocabbage]

Sorry, can't resist going down this road just a bit. Won't go as far as to make the blanket statement that 10yr olds shouldn't be diving. However I will say that you may be focusing on the wrong thing when determining whether your particular 10yr old should be diving:

It's not just about whether they "get" the material. It's about deciding whether you're putting a 10yr old into a situation they can't handle. This is true of ANYONE regardless of age.

Most parents figure that if they are the 10yr old's buddy they will be able to bail their kid out if the ***** hits the fan. Probably true relative to any other person the parent would buddy with. However those same parents usually fail to recognize the corollary that if the 10yr old is YOUR buddy then THEY need to be able to bail YOU out if the stuff hits the fan.

If your 10yr old doesn't have the intelligence, skills, situational awareness, and possibly physical strength to come to your aid in an emergency you are diving solo, and your kid is on a "trust me" dive. If that's the case you need to ask yourself why you are willingly putting your child in that situation.

I have a 10yr old daughter who could probably teach her 5th grade math class, and I wouldn't even think about certifying her until she was about 14 or so. And even then I wouldn't suggest it, but would wait until she begged and pleaded to get certified. And then I would make sure she completed Rescue Diver before I would dive with her 1-on-1 without another DM or instructor with us.

granted..

but we are a family of 5.. and all of us will be diving together.. when we dive.. we dont sit at arms reach but we are all mindful of eachother the entire time..

When I dive with my family, and thats the only way I dive, I am everyones buddy and they are all mine.. get it? We dont just have 1 buddy.. we have a team if you will.

My wife and the two youngest are all absolute naturals under and on the water. The oldest does very well and excelled in class and has 0 issues.. When she does get any sense of panic, she lets me know and we cut the dive there. Get group up, get our consoles in hand and slowly go up.

I think whats important here is some underlying tones I read from others who resent when their buddy cuts their dive short.

I never hold it against them for cutting a dive when they are at the end of their comfort zone. Be it too cold, mask issue (constantly having to clear it because hair gets between the seal and water keeps leaking in and stinging their eyes), or what have you.. Its always done when they call it and we move on.

We all have our own gear minus tanks and look forward to when we get a deep pool so we can all just hang out at the bottom..

 

[psychocabbage]

So you, as a diver with <100 dives, and as someone who (I'm assuming here) has zero experience in a position of diving leadership, and as someone with questionable diving practices (IMHO), took her diving...?

Hahaha

I love it when people start this... Makes it all more fun when you all jump!


For the record.. She is still alive.. No scuba police were there to witness our infractions..
HAHHAHHA

 

[RJP]

So if anyone has any very basic way to instruct on dive tables, lets hear it...

The reason I ask is because the wife feels that since I just get math that maybe I cannot break it down best for her. Note: I have yet to even start to explain it to her...

I'd recommend allowing the instructor to instruct her. Working with OW classes I've see many kids that become even MORE confused when they try to reconcile what their instructor tells them with what their well-intentioned parents have tried to convey to them. (Never mind the fact that the PARENT might not know what the hell they are talking about.)

Scuba instructors are quite accustomed to teaching students how to use dive tables. Big surprise, huh! But beyond the obvious nature of that statement, consider that any experienced instructor has probably learned a dozen different ways to explain every possible diving concept to folks that might have trouble "getting it" for any of a million different reasons.

Rely on the instructor to TEACH your child, and then you can reinforce what the instructor has conveyed by coaching your child to think back to what the instructor said. Also, communicate directly with the instructor along the way. If you don't think your child is grasping something let the instructor know. Then ask them what - if anything - you should do to help. They might advise you to allow THEM to remediate.

 

[Walter]

There's no math involved beyond extremely simple addition and subtraction (1st grade level). Use a straight edge and make the loop. People with math phobias see numbers and stop listening thinking it's too hard for them. People with an open mind can teach themselves the tables in a few minutes. There is no math beyond 1st grade level involved in using the dive tables.

As for teaching 10 year olds, I'd take at least two years...

 

[pidgiepoo]

We got our 10 year old grandson junior open water certified two years ago. We left the classroom instruction to the instructor...but we took him to the quarry for underwater practice time and helped him with his skills.. He passed the written test without problems..but did take longer than the adults on the dive table questions. His instructor was patient and said it was important that he take his time and learn it correctly. By the end of the summer he had completed his open water cert, developed good buoyancy, practiced his underwater skills frequently,and was anxious for his first ocean dive in Cozumel. We requested a specific DM and made sure the first two dives were shallow ones. He was awesome and the DM could not believe these were his first ocean dives. I agree with those who said to leave the instruction to the instructor(as long as you are comfortable with the instructor) and offer advice only if problems/questions arrise. That way the kid can learn at his/her own speed and comprehension rate without having his parents causing confusion or making him/her uncomfortable. We stayed out of the teaching aspect, and ended up with a diver that makes us proud.

 

[Blackwood]

I'd recommend allowing the instructor to instruct her.

If it rhymes it must be true. I agree.

There's no math involved beyond extremely simple addition and subtraction (1st grade level). Use a straight edge and make the loop.

Aye. If she can drag her finger in a straight line, she can use the tables.

I think it's best left to the dive professional so that well-intentioned parents don't over complicate the issue.

 

[rstofer]

With the PADI eRDP, the discussion and use of tables is limited. The student is taught to plug in the numbers and get the answer. No real understanding is required.

I don't have any experience teaching dive tables to a youngster.

We really need to discuss clock and elapsed time. A dive starts at 11:35 and ends at 12:12. How many minutes did the dive last? This bit of arithmetic has to be perfect. I would probably spend an hour on this topic alone.

Then I would start with an explanation about how our bodies absorb Nitrogen and how we absorb it faster at depth. I would not go into the concept of compartments and different rates. Now, having said that we absorb nitrogen and how our bodies want to get rid of it slowly, I would talk about surface interval time. Just the concept, not the details. You have to wait before you can dive again. Then I would bring up pressure (letter) groups. I would show how, for a 30 minute dive, the pressure group could be as low as 'E' and how, for some depths, a 30 minute dive wouldn't even be allowed. I would let them find the ending groups for, say, all 20 minute dives. Then 10 minute dives, 5 minute dives, 60 minute dives. In other words, teach them to find the ending group for any dive. Lots of repetition. Hundreds of iterations until they can do it in their sleep. Find the pressure group at the end of the dive! This would be the place to mention rounding up!

Then I would discuss how the pressure group changes as the diver sits on the surface and the Nitrogen leaves the body. Give them a SIT and have them show how the beginning pressue group changes for all of the groups. Hundreds of iterations of finding the pressure group after the SIT. Again, clock arithmetic is the key. You start the 40' dive at 11:34, you end the dive at 12:22, you sit on the surface for 1:43 What is your pressure group at the end of the SIT. Repetition. Lots of repetition.

Now comes the hard part. You have to explain that unless you sit for a very long time, all of the Nitrogen has not left the body. But it may be ok to dive anyway. This is the point at which you describe Residual Nitrogen Time versus the planned depth of the next dive. Again, find RNT for various pressure groups and planned depths.

Now you have to describe NDL and how there is an Adjusted NDL that is simply the NDL - RNT. In fact, from the table, you can show how for, say, 40' the NDL is 140 minutes and that for pressure group F the RNT is 31 minutes and the ANDL is 109 minutes. 109 + 31 = 140. And that's all there is to NDL, RNT and ANDL.

Now you can start working on complete, repetitive dives. Get a NAUI table (because it has a planner on the back side) or even one of the PADI worksheets http://www.dive-aai.com/Forms/Specialties/EANx/EANx_planning_worksheet.pdf (ignore the stuff relating to Nitrox). Maybe there is a better form. Start working repetitive dive examples. Lots of them!

I would break this up into 4 or 5 sessions of no more that 2 hours. Kids have the attention span of a gnat! But hey, it took 2 or 3 sessions for my NAUI OW class. We didn't just gloss over it in 20 minutes and end with "Buy a computer!". Well, computers were kind of new in '88. Few were buying them and nobody was trusting them!

I am absolutely certain that if the material is present in small pieces, a 10 year old can easily learn as much or more than the average adult OW student who promptly forgets the tables and just buys a computer.

But I really believe the key will be small modules and a lot of repetition. I doubt that it will happen in a conventional PADI course. The kid will learn enough to pass the test but a real understanding takes a lot more time.

Richard

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I have assisted with 10,11, and 12 yr olds. I have taught a 12 and 1/2 thank you yr old( she was insistent on the 1/2!). The best way for a parent to help a younger person with tables is to stay out of the way and allow the instructor to do it. Parents who are not instructors have no business teaching their kids scuba. The expectations are too high, it puts too much pressure on the kids, and generally ruins the whole experience. The young lady I taught was a good student. Mom and Dad both well educated professionals who dive along with a 16 yr old brother who also dives. Parents also had enough sense to allow me to teach her. All they did was ensure the assigned homework was done. Any questions were directed to me in person or via email. Of course we had the luxury of being able to spend two 2 1/2 hour class sessions on tables including emergency deco procedures and calculations. This was a group of 5 students. Her dad was at every class and observed every lesson. He even learned a few things! The first session of each class is spent going over what will go on during the class. At this time it is made clear that I am the instructor. Parents, boyfriends, husbands, etc are told that they are welcome to observe. Period.

 

[tedtim]

So you, as a diver with <100 dives, and as someone who (I'm assuming here) has zero experience in a position of diving leadership, and as someone with questionable diving practices (IMHO), took her diving...?

Hahaha

I love it when people start this... Makes it all more fun when you all jump!


For the record.. She is still alive.. No scuba police were there to witness our infractions..
HAHHAHHA

I'd recommend allowing the instructor to instruct her. ....
Rely on the instructor to TEACH your child, and then you can reinforce what the instructor has conveyed by coaching your child to think back to what the instructor said. Also, communicate directly with the instructor along the way. If you don't think your child is grasping something let the instructor know. Then ask them what - if anything - you should do to help. They might advise you to allow THEM to remediate.

I think it's best left to the dive professional so that well-intentioned parents don't over complicate the issue.

Take it from someone who has been there and done that (not SCUBA, but certainly a direct parallel). My kids are now 25 and 23. I wish I had backed off a bit when I was in a position similar to the OP. If you are paying somone to teach your kids, let them teach your kids. Stand back; take a few breaths; wait until their course is over; go diving with them.

 

[Gary D.]

Take it from someone who has been there and done that (not SCUBA, but certainly a direct parallel). My kids are now 25 and 23. I wish I had backed off a bit when I was in a position similar to the OP. If you are paying somone to teach your kids, let them teach your kids. Stand back; take a few breaths; wait until their course is over; go diving with them.

Very true. Parents mean well but can do more harm than good stepping on an instructors toes.

Gary D.