How would you recommend that I start cave training
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raxafarian
Contributor
let's rent a backhoe and some mining equipment and make our own New England cave system!
detroit diver
Contributor
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From one who is looking at taking Cave 1 in the fall, I miss the reasoning behind the requirement for singles in a cave. In an overhead environment, doesn't it make much more sense to be in a set of doubles? Is this an option for you, or are singles the only way it's allowed?
OP
I think that its somewhat instructor dependent. I'm really going to try to do it in doubles. I already dive them and I agree with your comments regarding overheads.
GUE Cave 1 is certainly an option. However, for the same reason that my tech classes are taken across agencies, I want to explore my options and integrate them into my training.
GUE Cave 1 is certainly an option. However, for the same reason that my tech classes are taken across agencies, I want to explore my options and integrate them into my training.
TheDarknessLord
Contributor
try to find a good teacher, not a good place... the key is the teacher! cave dive is not a joke! yuo must trust to him a lot!!!
I can suggest Bil Phillips! 25+ years of experience in cave diving... not bad!
I can suggest Bil Phillips! 25+ years of experience in cave diving... not bad!
Campana
Guest
I originally had an IANTD instructor in OKC named Mike Ridgway, an excellent teacher and all around good man, and we were training in Missouri. As Mike F. said, conditions were unpredictable and I got frustrated, though I earned my cavern card and got in some dives. I decided to go on to Florida and finish up.
Before I went for training, I went down with friends and did some familiarization dives, getting used to my drysuit some more and taking it very easy. Later, I went for the one week thing. I then made another trip to Florida with more experienced divers and then a week in Mexico, ditto on more experienced. I was aware that my cave card was and is a license to learn.
As far as doubles, both my instructors and some others that I have talked to allow doubles from the beginning if you are not new to doubles. It is stupid to start of with a single tank and to buy an expensive H valve in order to dive less safely, in my opinion and that of my instructors. My full cave is NACD, but I could have gotten a NSS card or IANTD card from the same instructor, his training regime is the same.
Do not start cave training, drysuit diving, and doubles diving at the same time. It is ridiculous to be trying to master all those skills at once. Get your cave gear and dive with it in quarries, lakes, oceans or even swimming pools to get familiar with it. It is also fun to mess with stages and O2 bottles in a pool for a while before trying it in a high flow dark environment.
I, too have considered going back and retraining with GUE, and I still may. Right now I'm having too much fun gaining experience and moving stepwise towards competence. I try very hard to stay within my comfort zone. I think you have to push it a bit to continue learning, but nothing drastic. For example, I recently started using more stages and diving very high flow, and enjoyed it immensely.
I'm taking a trimix course right now and continuing to learn about deco, dive planning, and algebra. It too is very enjoyable and I'm learning stuff I didn't even know I didn't even know.
Interview several instructors and ask around. Most of the agencies are very similar with the exception of GUE, in my opinion.
I don't resent remarks about one week wonders. I do resent the term "zero to hero" for some reason. Technically, there were several months and many dives between starting and getting my card, but I don't consider myself a hero or a wonder. As long as you know your limitations you're good to go.
Have fun. Baby steps.
Dave
Before I went for training, I went down with friends and did some familiarization dives, getting used to my drysuit some more and taking it very easy. Later, I went for the one week thing. I then made another trip to Florida with more experienced divers and then a week in Mexico, ditto on more experienced. I was aware that my cave card was and is a license to learn.
As far as doubles, both my instructors and some others that I have talked to allow doubles from the beginning if you are not new to doubles. It is stupid to start of with a single tank and to buy an expensive H valve in order to dive less safely, in my opinion and that of my instructors. My full cave is NACD, but I could have gotten a NSS card or IANTD card from the same instructor, his training regime is the same.
Do not start cave training, drysuit diving, and doubles diving at the same time. It is ridiculous to be trying to master all those skills at once. Get your cave gear and dive with it in quarries, lakes, oceans or even swimming pools to get familiar with it. It is also fun to mess with stages and O2 bottles in a pool for a while before trying it in a high flow dark environment.
I, too have considered going back and retraining with GUE, and I still may. Right now I'm having too much fun gaining experience and moving stepwise towards competence. I try very hard to stay within my comfort zone. I think you have to push it a bit to continue learning, but nothing drastic. For example, I recently started using more stages and diving very high flow, and enjoyed it immensely.
I'm taking a trimix course right now and continuing to learn about deco, dive planning, and algebra. It too is very enjoyable and I'm learning stuff I didn't even know I didn't even know.
Interview several instructors and ask around. Most of the agencies are very similar with the exception of GUE, in my opinion.
I don't resent remarks about one week wonders. I do resent the term "zero to hero" for some reason. Technically, there were several months and many dives between starting and getting my card, but I don't consider myself a hero or a wonder. As long as you know your limitations you're good to go.
Have fun. Baby steps.
Dave
Campana
Guest
I've dived both places. I love both places. They are different. Some of the differences are:
Florida is deeper, and flow is much, much stronger in some caves
Florida is colder.
Bouancy is critical in Florida to prevent silting, and moreso in Mexico because you will not even commit the temporary foul of silting, but might commit the permanent foul of busting something several thousands years old and very, very, delicate.
In Mexico, you can dive in aluminum doubles and a wetsuit. Much easier.
In Mexico, there are more bizarre combinations of jumps, gaps, "reach gaps" and "snap and gaps". In Florida, it's a little more "standard".
In Mexico, since you are so shallow, bouancy can be tougher cause you're in the first atmosphere below water and changes are quicker and more drastic. For example, we did a dive in December that was two hours on one set of aluminum 80's and averaged 16'.
In Florida, you'll probably use a drysuit and steel, much harder unless you are totally familiar with those items.
Overall, I would recommend Florida for training because it's tougher, in my opinion, because of the colder, deeper caves.
However, I would not cast any disparagement on anyone training in Mexico. It's just that, as someone said above, you should make sure you are prepared for the Florida factors. On the other hand, you should also make sure you are prepared for the challanges of Mexico.
Do yourself a favor; dive both.
Dave
Florida is deeper, and flow is much, much stronger in some caves
Florida is colder.
Bouancy is critical in Florida to prevent silting, and moreso in Mexico because you will not even commit the temporary foul of silting, but might commit the permanent foul of busting something several thousands years old and very, very, delicate.
In Mexico, you can dive in aluminum doubles and a wetsuit. Much easier.
In Mexico, there are more bizarre combinations of jumps, gaps, "reach gaps" and "snap and gaps". In Florida, it's a little more "standard".
In Mexico, since you are so shallow, bouancy can be tougher cause you're in the first atmosphere below water and changes are quicker and more drastic. For example, we did a dive in December that was two hours on one set of aluminum 80's and averaged 16'.
In Florida, you'll probably use a drysuit and steel, much harder unless you are totally familiar with those items.
Overall, I would recommend Florida for training because it's tougher, in my opinion, because of the colder, deeper caves.
However, I would not cast any disparagement on anyone training in Mexico. It's just that, as someone said above, you should make sure you are prepared for the Florida factors. On the other hand, you should also make sure you are prepared for the challanges of Mexico.
Do yourself a favor; dive both.
Dave
I spent 1 1/2 years preparing to be a "one week wonder". FWIW, I spent a preparation to class ratio of about 8:1.
I suggest a mentor relationship with your instructor that extends beyond certification. There are several very capable instructors in North Florida. Discuss your goals with a few of them prior to making your selection.
You will become very focused upon who you are willing to go into those pits with. I take serious care selecting my cave partners that I'm placing my trust in. The card may get me in the cave, but my training, experience and buddies get me back out.
If you're comfortable in doubles and plan to do full cave then you should be encouraged to dive that configuration. The instructor will make that call.
Larry
I suggest a mentor relationship with your instructor that extends beyond certification. There are several very capable instructors in North Florida. Discuss your goals with a few of them prior to making your selection.
You will become very focused upon who you are willing to go into those pits with. I take serious care selecting my cave partners that I'm placing my trust in. The card may get me in the cave, but my training, experience and buddies get me back out.
If you're comfortable in doubles and plan to do full cave then you should be encouraged to dive that configuration. The instructor will make that call.
Larry
BIGJC
Guest
I think most instructors in florida will let you use doubles as long as you have experience in them and they are rigged safely. Every agency has ups and downs but I like your philosophy about staying within your limits and gaining experience. I know some people who think a C-card makes them an expert, it does not, actually it makes you a beginner! I am trying to dive in cave country evry 4-6 weeks, practive makes perfect huh??
Good luck to you!
Good luck to you!
cornfed
Mindless lemming
You are allowed to used doubles but an Intro Cave cert limits you to a single tank. Don't know why but that's what the NSS-CDS website says.
Cornfed
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