How would you handle this?

[danvolker]

Here is another "user group" conflict, one that has never been resolved, but apparently we have been lucky with....

In Lake Worth, Florida, there is a pier at the Lake Worth Public beach.... I have a video of this from about 10 years ago, where there are about 100 fisherman on the pier, many with struggling fish on lines ( sending out dinner bell vibrations to sharks) AND, there are a number of cleaning stations along the pier, one about 20 feet away from some 10 year olds swimming in 5 feet of water, where blood and chum is being exhausted into the water as the fisherman clean their fish....the water near the kids is quite colored with blood.

It was our contention, years ago, that the swimmers were a legal and bona fide user group of this resource, and so were the fisherman.....However, we believed the 2 user groups should not co-exist in this manner, as the chumming and vibrating fish on the line were constantly bringing in sharks, some of which would be caught. The lifeguards would have to be on the lookout for sharks, and we also know the fisherman had been told not to land large bull sharks, as this was bad for the swimmers to see.

I believe we have been very lucky in Lake Worth, that no kids have been attacked by a shark thinking they were a fish, for a very long time.....Part of this is that we normally have pretty clear water, so the mistaken identity issues that happens up in northern Florida beaches are less common here.
Just the same, here are two user groups that really are incompatible.

At the BHB, people come from Dade, Broward, Tampa, Orlando, and all over the US to SEE or photograph the marine life...the same marine life that could be stripped and removed completely in one day, if too many collectors or hunters showed up. So again, we have two incompatible user groups. I would prefer to see this as "greatest good for greatest number" , meaning the public's right to experience this as seeing or photographing, would be the user group choice by governement, over a small number of self involved individuals, that would take at the expense of everyone else, and not care that they are destroying the resource.

 

[Tigerman]

I had a friend that was known for killing a deer on his way to work in the evenings and would hang and bleed it from his truck, before butchering it when he got home, several hours later...

On that note and completely offtopic Im pretty pissed off at a pickup truck driver right now..

I was out running - infact I barely got started - when a white pickup truck pass me and only a few yards infront of me 2 roe deer is crossing the road.
I know as I saw them running towards the place that there is a calf running behind them and this guy hits it with a fairly audible bang, turn out into the middle of the road and just drive off.
No attempt to have a look at the deer, no sign of even trying to contact anyone to do anything about it. I ended up spending the time I was planning to use for a run knocking on a neighbour (who I know hunt) door and helping getting the poor roe deer put out of its missery.
It had 3 broken legs and would have gotten a slow, painful death thanks to someone not even bothering using their cellphone

 

[letterboy]

On that note and completely offtopic Im pretty pissed off at a pickup truck driver right now..

I was out running - infact I barely got started - when a white pickup truck pass me and only a few yards infront of me 2 roe deer is crossing the road.
I know as I saw them running towards the place that there is a calf running behind them and this guy hits it with a fairly audible bang, turn out into the middle of the road and just drive off.
No attempt to have a look at the deer, no sign of even trying to contact anyone to do anything about it. I ended up spending the time I was planning to use for a run knocking on a neighbour (who I know hunt) door and helping getting the poor roe deer put out of its missery.
It had 3 broken legs and would have gotten a slow, painful death thanks to someone not even bothering using their cellphone

:dislike:

It is nice living in an area where we do not have deer running in front of you all the time. poor bambi

 

[paulw]

Here is what it is looking like:

One older man sees a teenager pulling an octopus out of water and sees that as a perfect opportunity to approach and bully the kid. What would a 19 year old know about conservation laws right? He could just approach this kid in an authoritarian "cop-like" tone and the kid should buckle under and start apologizing. The old man would then go home as the victorious crusader of the scenario and mentally replay this act of heroism in his mind over and over again. Well it didn't turn out that way. The kid did not come under pressure and told the old man that he knew he was hunting within the law so ... get lost! After that, all the rage was about some "unwritten code of honor among divers" that got violated. Excuse me???

How dare Bob "bully the kid". I wasn't there to hear the exchange but bullying? "authoritarian "cop-like" tone"? I don't know about all that. What I do know is that Bob along with everyone in the community has just as much a "right" to voice their opinion about the event as the kid had to create the event and I mean create it. Any diver (especially from the area) would know that to do what he did, where he did it and then flaunt it would create a controversy. I was taught that for everything you want in life there is a price to pay and this kid should have been ready to pay the price. A court and a law may make it legal but it doesn't make it right, its kind of like poking a sleeping dog with a stick, it is legal but will probably get you bit and when it does don't go crying about it being unfair because it was legal. If this kid wants to hunt and it is legal and he chooses practice his right it in a place that is frowned on by the local community I think it would be prudent to be very quiet about it, it may be legal but as he has found out the price may be high. No sympathy for the guy here and no "because the mean old man bullied you" get out of jail free card.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Are you serious? My son was 12 when he got his first daisy. The first thing I taught him you eat what you kill. I did not want my kid going around killing all the birds in the neighborhood. The "kid" was never taught. Why should he not know about conservation, you think it is hard to teach a child not to kill for killing sake?

Someone obviously taught this boy his pleasure outweighs all else. That seems to be the outlook of too many today. That is the heart of the problem. IMO

You totally mis-understood my post Sassy. Read it again I amnot saying that 19 year old is not smart enough to know what is right and what is wrong. This is how the self appointed SCUBA Police saw the situation when they proceeded to bully the kid. He was within the law, knew it and conveyed it.

 

[Tigerman]

:dislike:

It is nice living in an area where we do not have deer running in front of you all the time. poor bambi

Tasty though - but dont tell PETA..

 

[Flodad]

O.K. How about sharing the recipe? How long did you leave your catch on the back of your pickup bed, loose and then splayed out on the driveway or garage floor before butcher ing your octopus?

Are you implying that I dont know how to care for the meat prior to and including butchering it? If so, thats a pretty closed minded comment. Some of us absolutley enjoy harvesting what we eat and take pride in being able to take it from the Ocean (or field) to the dinner table. I butcher all my meat, all my seafood and take great pride in having truly outstanding quality of food that no one else has touched. It just doesnt get any better..... I take better care of my meat/seafood than any commerical operation invovled in getting your meat/seafood to the local grocery store.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

How dare Bob "bully the kid". I wasn't there to hear the exchange but bullying? "authoritarian "cop-like" tone"? I don't know about all that. What I do know is that Bob along with everyone in the community has just as much a "right" to voice their opinion about the event as the kid had to create the event and I mean create it. Any diver (especially from the area) would know that to do what he did, where he did it and then flaunt it would create a controversy. I was taught that for everything you want in life there is a price to pay and this kid should have been ready to pay the price. A court and a law may make it legal but it doesn't make it right, its kind of like poking a sleeping dog with a stick, it is legal but will probably get you bit and when it does don't go crying about it being unfair because it was legal. If this kid wants to hunt and it is legal and he chooses practice his right it in a place that is frowned on by the local community I think it would be prudent to be very quiet about it, it may be legal but as he has found out the price may be high. No sympathy for the guy here and no "because the mean old man bullied you" get out of jail free card.

Yes. Bob has as much a right to voice his opinion but Bob is not a game warden so he has no official authority behind those opinions. He has no business going up and confronting a total stranger (who is operating within the law) and demanding him to explain himself to Bob. Sure Bob can do that but you have to remember that the free speech principle that gives Bob the right to approach this kid is the same principle that will give this kid the right to give Bob a middle finger salute. You talk about free speech law as if it was drafted for Bob and his scubaboard supporters only.

Here is what I think I would have done if I was Bob.

1) First inquire whether the guy is hunting within the law or not.
2) If he is within the law then get the dive community together, along with conservation groups and universities to try to change the law itself. This would have resolved the issue without making a bad guy out of any single individual.

The best thing is to address these issues without making villains out of everyday people. It is possible to address conservation issues without making anyone, the "bad guy" be it Bob or the kid.

 

[ScubaSteve]

This would have resolved the issue without making a bad guy out of any single individual.

You say this like the guys already public information doesn't make him look like a bad guy. Everything on his FB page is what makes him look like a bad guy to me. It is for all those reasons that I am pleased with the outcome of this. He is, IMO, far from a "good guy". The fact that it was not known by most that he did all those terrible things until this incident with Bob means nothing. The information was there and available. The information, whether publicly available or not, was posted by him as his version of chest thumping. That information points to the kind of person this kid is IMO. This is why I believe he got what he deserved.

 

[lowviz]

@ CAPTAIN SINBAD: Not quite.

Bob is free to express his displeasure. In fact, doing so prompts the diver to assess his own position. Whether the diver does so or not is nothing that Bob can control. A bit of honest "shoulder bumping" is healthy way to put all of the issues onto the table.

Attempt to explain why one finds this behavior unacceptable at this particular location and let the diver exercise his own free choice. Should this be ineffective, legal recourse is the last resort. Both sides should be prepared for a piss-poor outcome if it comes to this. IMHO, the threat of legal action is keeping many other informed voices off of this particular thread.