How would you handle this situation?

[mavdog]

[/QUOTE]redrover
Way, way out west
It just seems like at least another person, available and willing, could be useful so why not?
[/QUOTE]

Properly trained, availible and willing would be better other wise its just compounding the problem.

 

[Web Monkey]

The instructor was 5.3 115 lbs and the guy was 5.11 230 lbs. The size differential here means that a guy who is 200 lbs is given the task of rescuing Hulk Hogan when he used to be really fat! 390 lbs

NOW HOW GOOD ARE ALL THOSE RESCUE DIVER DRILLS?

I think if you dont have a float to throw, then the instructor better stay the hell away or we would have two divers to rescue not one. Am I correct or no?

That depends on how confident you are of your ability to control the situation.

I wouldn't be worried about a really fat diver overpowering me, I'd be worried about him having a heart-attack or stroke while panicking.

Generally if you can get underneath, ditch the weights, and inflate the BC, they'll eventually get tired and calm down, at which point you can grab the tank valve and tow them back to the boat/shore.

Panic takes a ton of energy, and most people can't maintain it for a very long period of time.

A good rescue class is priceless.

Terry

 

[reefdvr]

Throw a life ring with rope attached and yell for him to grab it. If he's not paying attention to you toss again so as to bump him with it.

 

[CoralSeaMan]

It just seems like at least another person, available and willing, could be useful so why not?

Because if you are not able to think through the problem and get yourself in a jam, the other rescuer may now have two problems to deal with. Remember it is hard enough to deal with one panicked diver. What if there is now a panicked diver and an injured diver? This may be as much about being helpful and not a distraction to the rescuer yourself as it is about any particular technique. I expect the sudden end to your situation is very typical. If there is time and a way to communicate fine, but impulsive action is potentially a problem.
As the others have said - Rescue training is good.

 

[carldarl]

As others have already said, Take A Rescue Diver class. It will teach you how to deal with these situations safely. At 6.3 and 265 pounds, as a "paniced" diver, I was "handled" easily by my classmate from behind. All 160 pounds of him. By riding the victom's tank with your knees and holding their first stage with a stiff arm, they can not reach you. Let them thrash around. They'll tire quickly and then you can help them... from behind.

As for kneck holds, choke holds, pressure points and all the other "overpower the victom techniques, good luck. The panicing diver will get you every time. And, I can't think of a situation that warrants getting physical with them. It just isn't necessary.

INVEST THE CLASS!

It will be one of the best investments in your own dive training you'll ever make.

 

[diverdowndh]

Sitting here with a keyboard in my hand it is really easy to come up with a plan that would benefit all involved... I am a fairly big guy, lift weights several times a week and am a semi-pro drummer - I would put my upper body strength against many. Here is my nice warm office evaluation <grin>:
Of course, the instructor was in charge. But, if a large person was about to drown a small instructor, I would probably have yelled out to the instructor to see what she wanted me to do. If he/she was having difficulty, I would have offered to throw the paniced diver something, make sure my buddy STAYED PUT IN THE BOAT NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENED, and followed the instructors lead. Being a DMC, I have been ResQ trained and had a similar incident happen in Grand Turk, incidently very soon after my ResQ class. The DM of the boat was the smallest guy I've ever seen in my life- very competent and capable, just very small. The paniced diver in this case was a HUGE guy, overweight a bit, I'm guessing 260+lbs. That poor guy just could NOT get a handle on the situation. We threw the big guy a life ring but he didn't even take notice of it. There were 3 others on the boat, my GF was also ResQ trained. I yelled to the DM asking if he wanted my help. He was choking water at that point, and I told my GF to STAY ON THE BOAT and I jumped in. I had to wrangle the guy a bit, but got his inflator and his tank from behind and finally got him to relax. Only when I manhandled him to show him I had control did he slow down. The other option I was weighing was, as the ResQ book describes, to let him wear himself down. Fortunately, it all ended good and I got a dinner with drinks not only from the guy, but the DM who was most appreciative of the help.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I would NOT have jumped into the water if A) the DM wasn't in trouble, or B) another person, or in this case, a known ResQ trained diver was in the boat to assist.
Quite the experience right off the ResQ course, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Web Monkey]

imilar incident happen in Grand Turk, incidently very soon after my ResQ class. The DM of the boat was the smallest guy I've ever seen in my life- very competent and capable, just very small. The paniced diver in this case was a HUGE guy, overweight a bit, I'm guessing 260+lbs. That poor guy just could NOT get a handle on the situation. We threw the big guy a life ring but he didn't even take notice of it. There w

It doesn't really matter if the panicked diver is Godzilla and you're an 80 pound anorexic schoolgirl. If your instructor was trying to do anything on the surface in front of a large panicked diver, she was doing it the hard (and more dangerous) way.

Assuming your BC has a decent amount of lift, as long as you can get behind him, grab the tank valve and lean him back, everything else is just a waiting game.

You don't actually have to be able to stop him from thrashing around, you only have to be able to maintain your position behind him and keep his head out of the water. This will prevent him from drowning and also keep him in front where he can't hurt you.

Eventually, he'll get tired and you can take care of whatever is going on or tow him to the boat.

He'll probably be really, really embarrassed, so be nice.

FWIW, I think rental BCs should have a rip cord right by the tank valve, so when you get a panicked diver, you can ditch the weights from behind, where it's safe.

Terry

 

[diverdowndh]

Agreed... it *was* cool to have a beer afterwards, my GF and I... you know, we ARE ResQ divers! Save the day!
Never been in a situation like that before or since, which is fine w/me. You are correct, all I did was go under the guy, physically grab his tank and inflator hose from behind, and more importantly keep the big lug from drowning me. It *did* take some physical strength so just being in the correct position was not all that it took. The guy was big, and strong. That is all the DM really did wrong, the panicked guy got ahold of him first and you can hardly fault him for that.

 

[redrover]

Because if you are not able to think through the problem and get yourself in a jam, the other rescuer may now have two problems to deal with. Remember it is hard enough to deal with one panicked diver. What if there is now a panicked diver and an injured diver? This may be as much about being helpful and not a distraction to the rescuer yourself as it is about any particular technique. I expect the sudden end to your situation is very typical. If there is time and a way to communicate fine, but impulsive action is potentially a problem.
As the others have said - Rescue training is good.

Ok.
Just…gee whizzies, are there no people out there diving unable to think, remain calm in challenging situations and address their own safety first?
By impulsive do you mean evaluating and accessing the situation and your personal available contributions, quickly, unemotionally and honestly? Or, just jumping in with one arm and leg still in the wetsuit thinking ‘I’m not up for this and have no clue what I can do’?

I keep visualizing a bunch of people standing on a boat looking down at a drowning man saying to each other; ‘It’s a good thing it’s been drummed into me I’m unable to assist anyone. I have the feeling I could do ‘this’ and it’s real hard to just watch those two struggle. But I know better than to help anyone. Hey, if that guy doesn’t have the presence of mind to just do what he’s told, it’s his problem.'

 

[KeysCuda]

Haven't had a dive rescue class, but did go through Red Cross lifeguard certification several times in my younger days (back then, the motto was: 'Throw, Row, Go.' After using a pole, or tossing a rope end or towel to the victim).
We spent quite a bit of water-training time having the instructor act as 'victim' and beat the living daylights out of us.
Bottom line, there are ways to physically handle a panicked victim but actually handling a panicked victim is the last thing even the trained rescuers want to do. And if you haven't trained and practiced, I wouldn't touch him.

So in response to your situation, what I would have done:
- Extend a pole or oar
- Toss him a life ring or PFD
- Toss him the end of a rope or towel to pull him in
- maybe get in the water, keep hold of the boat, and extend a leg out to him (making sure somebody was hanging onto me)
- I would not try to loosen his weights, since that would put me too close to him.
- We were always taught to approach a panicked victim from behind (and even victims who might suddenly panic).
Now - and I'm just a guy, nothing special at all, not trying to be an expert at anything - but I have been trained in some types of water rescue, and actually done it in the real world a couple times.
But being out of practice, it would take a lot for me to try to grapple with some panicked diver, especially a big dude.
So, generally speaking, don't.
There's a lot you can do without endangering yourself.