How to use surface marker buoy SMB ?

[ivobj]

It's a basic skill that should be getting bundled into an existing class (like AOW).

DSMB deployment isn't very difficult ... not even for the larger, semi-closed bags.

You don't NEED to be part of an "advanced cult" ... you just need some basic buoyancy skills so that you don't accidentally change depth while you're working on deploying it.

There is absolutely no justification for turning this exercise into a separate, specialty class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Couldn't agree more... ideally this should be an safety exercise for AOW and other training steps after that.

One small example I've seen happen. One group (4 people, 3 AOW + Divemaster), after a while one of the divers probably got caught in a current (I was back in the boat, not in the water with them at this time). Noticing the missing diver the divemaster had to call the dive and return to the boat with the group, it took a while until the missing diver was found already about 100 m from the boat and distance increasing. No SMB deplayed. Nothing serious happened, only a scared diver, but could have consequenses.

IMO, what we can take from that...

1 - There would be no point for the divemaster deploying the SMB where he was, he didn't want to draw attention on him, on the opposite, he wanted the boat crew and divers aboard to look everywhere, except where he was, for the lost diver

2 - If the lost diver deployed his SMB (yes, he had one, but couldn't deploy it deep and even worse in the surface, it was an open SMB) it would be a lot easier to find and follow while he was getting farther in the current.

So it is indeed a good safety feature practice to teach AOW divers to deploy SMB.

 

[Interceptor121]

This diver got separated so in theory after one minute he had to surface, and definitely not spend his or her time to inflate an SMB and/or do a safety stop. Once at the surface use anything he/she had to attract attention. This also confirms the point that open ended SMB are not really a good option even worse than a whistle in this case.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This diver got separated so in theory after one minute he had to surface, and definitely not spend his or her time to inflate an SMB and/or do a safety stop.

Whaaaat?

The "book" says you search for one minute, then proceed to make an orderly ascent. There is no "standard" for skipping your safety stop ... that is a judgment call you have to make depending on circumstances. For example, from a 100-foot depth if you opt to skip the safety stop, at the maximum ascent rate of 30 feet per minute, it would take you about 4-1/3 minutes from the time you realized you were separated till you hit the surface. Current can take you quite a long distance in that amount of time. And if it's me coming up from 100 feet, I'm blowing a bag and doing a safety stop.

With proper training and practice, deploying an SMB takes a few seconds ... and you can do it while making your ascent.

Real-life story ... I was diving at Race Rocks in Victoria, B.C. with a friend. We were coming up from 115 fsw when we encountered a strong current that pushed us away from the wall ... we'd rounded a point where two currents converged and swept away from land. We continued our ascent while preparing to shoot the bag, and shot it at about 70 fsw, then continued our ascent. After a standard 3-minute safety stop we surfaced to discover we were nearly a half-mile from the dive site ... and the boat was about 30 feet away from us. Had we not blown the bag, they'd have been back there waiting for us to come up.

Once at the surface use anything he/she had to attract attention. This also confirms the point that open ended SMB are not really a good option even worse than a whistle in this case.

Not sure why the diver in the previous example could not use an open-ended bag at the surface (it will work, although I do prefer semi-closed or closed bags). But in the example I gave above a whistle would've been completely useless. We were too far away and with a moderate wind blowing in the wrong direction. Even a Dive Alert would probably not have been sufficient.

As I made the point earlier, the efficacy of a deployable SMB really depends on where you're diving. Last year there was a group lost in the islands around Komodo. Having been diving at the same site a few months earlier, I can easily envision how it happened ... and had they carried and used a deployable SMB (as our divers were required to do) they most likely would not have gotten lost and spent two days on an island in the company of 8-foot long lizards ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[weaponeer]

I just don't dive without carrying my 6' SMB, rolled up and tucked in a BCD pocket. A 60' delrin spool and double-ender ss clip is attached. It is a permanent part of my kit. I learned how to use it by first watching others' deploy theirs at depth, reading about the procedure of deployment from various sources, and practicing use in safe and shallower water.

I believe that SMB use should be taught with the rest of the basics during OW class, and that every diver should carry one on every open water dive. It would also make sense for new divers to demonstrate SMB deployment during checkout dives so the technique is practiced and understood before the need ever arises to deploy it in an emergency. It could mean the difference between a safe recovery and a long search for a missing diver.

 

[Interceptor121]

Whaaaat?

The "book" says you search for one minute, then proceed to make an orderly ascent. There is no "standard" for skipping your safety stop ... that is a judgment call you have to make depending on circumstances. For example, from a 100-foot depth if you opt to skip the safety stop, at the maximum ascent rate of 30 feet per minute, it would take you about 4-1/3 minutes from the time you realized you were separated till you hit the surface. Current can take you quite a long distance in that amount of time. And if it's me coming up from 100 feet, I'm blowing a bag and doing a safety stop.

With proper training and practice, deploying an SMB takes a few seconds ... and you can do it while making your ascent.

Real-life story ... I was diving at Race Rocks in Victoria, B.C. with a friend. We were coming up from 115 fsw when we encountered a strong current that pushed us away from the wall ... we'd rounded a point where two currents converged and swept away from land. We continued our ascent while preparing to shoot the bag, and shot it at about 70 fsw, then continued our ascent. After a standard 3-minute safety stop we surfaced to discover we were nearly a half-mile from the dive site ... and the boat was about 30 feet away from us. Had we not blown the bag, they'd have been back there waiting for us to come up.


Not sure why the diver in the previous example could not use an open-ended bag at the surface (it will work, although I do prefer semi-closed or closed bags). But in the example I gave above a whistle would've been completely useless. We were too far away and with a moderate wind blowing in the wrong direction. Even a Dive Alert would probably not have been sufficient.

As I made the point earlier, the efficacy of a deployable SMB really depends on where you're diving. Last year there was a group lost in the islands around Komodo. Having been diving at the same site a few months earlier, I can easily envision how it happened ... and had they carried and used a deployable SMB (as our divers were required to do) they most likely would not have gotten lost and spent two days on an island in the company of 8-foot long lizards ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Don't make look like am saying that an SMB is not a good idea. I am quite positive that if you get separated and your computer does not ask for a mandatory safety stop, which withing recreational diving is very unlikely, the best option is to ascent you can then inflate the sausage while your are on the surface. So I believe that the example given was not a good representation of deploying SMB skills. You send an SMB when you are in a buddy pair and then proceed with your safety stop or normal ascent whatever you like. Once you are already in an emergency and separated is quite obvious then staying underwater on your own for an extended time is not the preferred course of action. So fidgeting around a ballon and making a 3 minute stop that adds another 5 minutes to the time are you are separate is not the type of behavior I would recommend a student especially because if you do get separated you may start panicking and in those conditions you really want to keep things simple.
I am talking about the average diver here not the perfect one that keeps the cool after being separated.
Good discussion though. I guess it is individual judgment but having the right gear, knowing how to use it and when to use it seems to be the key...

 

[ivobj]

This diver got separated so in theory after one minute he had to surface, and definitely not spend his or her time to inflate an SMB and/or do a safety stop. Once at the surface use anything he/she had to attract attention. This also confirms the point that open ended SMB are not really a good option even worse than a whistle in this case.

Sorry, but I'm afraid I must disagree on that one!!

If you got caught in a current, chances are that you will be taken away from the boat and surface too far to be easily seen, or even seen at all, depending on the strengh of the current, so you must give a sign while you still in the water so surface team can follow your SMB with the boat or if available send a support boat, and as Bob mention, I do not think theory says anything about skipping a safety stop, this is diver judgement and specially if I have been diving near NDL, even in recreational, most probably I will do the safety stop (and of course deploy the SMB in the moment I realize I am separated from the group and caught in a current).

You mentioned in other post "I guess it is individual judgment but having the right gear, knowing how to use it and when to use it seems to be the key" and with that I fully agree, there is where the importance of teaching the skill of deploying an SMB in AOW is important, "knowing how to use your equipment"... and it is so simple that does not IMO justify a specific class for that!

Just complementing the situation I narrated in my previous post, I agree with Bob, there is no problem with an open SMB in the surface, the issue is that the diver didn't have the skill, specially because the open circuit is more trick to inflate in the surface. That is why I think that if he had been trained in AOW, probably he could have deployed from the botton or at least would have the skill to do it in the surface.

 

[Interceptor121]

I am afraid I don't get the logic. This diver had an open ended SMB which most likely he could only deploy at 5 meters. Assuming there were 2 knots current it would have spent a couple of minutes to get to 5 meters and at that point be further away 120 meters. Then he could either:
1. Ascend in 30 seconds or less and deploy an SMB at surface. He is now at 150 meters away from where he started the ascent then inflates the sausage
2. Make a safety stop spending an additional 3 minutes of safety stop, 30 seconds to ascent and one minute to deploy the sausage at depth. Which means he would have sent the sausage up 1 minute later than the previous case and now drift for an additional 4' or 240 meters
So in the first case he submerged 150 meters away from his original point and inflated the sausage in the same point, in the second he submerged 390 meters away and sent the sausage up when he was 180 meters away
With a reel and a self sealing SMB the same diver could have shot the sausage immediately and then proceed with or without the safety stop, but deploying SMB from 20 meters+ seems a bit too much for an AOW course where divers can actually choose 3 of the 5 dives and there are places in the world where you are never going to use an SMB anyway.

 

[D_B]

I think Bob (NWGD) is correct in that SMB deployment training belongs in AOW , I don't think that I could have handled it in my OW class .. I can still remember the feeling of being task loaded and it was a three week class (and my understanding from others that I've dived with, is that my instructor was also pretty thorough in my training)

I always carry one

Dry Tortugas live aboard is where I learned to deploy it underwater, they required everyone to carry one, although they did not require you to deploy it underwater, they also pointed out if you do, it's a good idea to do it after your safety stop the first time you do it, just in case you have issues and float up wards a ways before you can arrest your ascent (I did)

one thing that helped me was when I learned to look at rigging it out of the corner of my eye while watching the particulate matter in the water, it gives you very direct feed back on your position in the water column and made holding my depth much much easier

 

[TSandM]

So fidgeting around a ballon and making a 3 minute stop that adds another 5 minutes to the time are you are separate is not the type of behavior I would recommend a student especially because if you do get separated you may start panicking and in those conditions you really want to keep things simple.
I am talking about the average diver here not the perfect one that keeps the cool after being separated.

Two comments . . . One is that, once you have gained facility with shooting a bag, it's something that can be done while you are executing your ascent, and needn't delay you at all. (It does take some practice to get to that point, but if I can do it, anybody can.)

The second is that, if you are the sort of person who panics when separated, you really oughtn't be diving high current sites or in low viz, which are conditions in which separation is likely -- and also the conditions where a bag is most useful.

 

[Interceptor121]

You are very optimistic. I have clocked pro's doing this, by the time you get the stuff from the bag, secure it, inflate it you have given away one minute. Check it next time you do it.

The rest is master of the obvious type of stuff that I agree but was not what was brought into the discussion, besides current pick up some times in half hour