how to pressure group / deep dive

[Charlie99]

ScubaToneDog once bubbled...
30 minutes at 110'....I doubt you could make an 80CF tank last that long(Im assuming 80CF) that deep.
<snipped irrelevant details of possible multi-level dive>

1. The problem is that the student did NOT know the actual profile. Clearly he did not know the intended profile, nor did he calculate and plan the dive ahead of time. Furthermore, he didn't have a computer, and instead the two of them relied upon the instructor's computer. These problems exist whether or not there was the additional standards violation of exceeding 100'.


2. 110' is 4.34ata. 30 minutes at 110' is equal to 130 minutes at the surface. Using 65 cu ft (leaving 500psi reserve) this a very reasonable 0.5 cu ft / min SAC --- not at all uncommon and one that I can do while swimming at a pretty good pace.

 

[ScubaToneDog]

We were not there! We are assuming the student is always right! We are all assuming the instructor is always a dunderhead! We assume his recollection of depth is correct (was his max depth indicator set to zero before he went down?)! We assume his SAC rate is 0.5! We assume way too much in the students favor! He states in his response that these were his first dives since being certified 2 weeks prior! Certified in what? Basic OW?

If he has questions he should ask his instructor which is what I recommended.

I question no ones certification, level of expertise, safe or unsafe practices based on their skill or their choice in any of the above.
I am not an instructor, but I am working on becoming one eventually. I refuse to critique an instructor on their practices especially on the net... If you dont like the way things are taught then teach the way you think is best, but beware, not everyone will approve of your methods either......

 

[ScubaToneDog]

I had to update this pic with my own face for getting into it on this thread.....

 

[landlocked]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
.... Am I ever glad I'm getting out of this......

I've been gone for a while. Tell me this isn't true!

 

[landlocked]

Scuba_Vixen once bubbled...
The scuba nazis are running wild...Darlene

(OK. Maybe I miss WW a little. I think a bit of his input might be nice here.)

Nazis? No. Just safe divers. The kind you should be. Bent is ugly. I agree with Mike. Alot of diving that I have been exposed to lately is unsafe and like him, I really don't want to be a part of it. This dive was not safe with or without an instructor.

 

[chrpai]

Charlie99 once bubbled...
2. 110' is 4.34ata. 30 minutes at 110' is equal to 130 minutes at the surface. Using 65 cu ft (leaving 500psi reserve) this a very reasonable 0.5 cu ft / min SAC --- not at all uncommon and one that I can do while swimming at a pretty good pace.

I doubt this guy has a .5cfm SAC. In another post he said

adjuster-jd once bubbled...

The second dive was shallow - like about 30 feet - again, I only got about 32 minutes of air before safety stop. I was the only one who came up that quick and I was able to get another tank and get some more bottom time in for another 15-20 minutes or so. (Boy, did that confuse the divemaster when she saw me come back down.......)

Everyone else in the group was able to stay down for the entire time of nearly an hour.

I'm starting to wonder if this guy is really Mick.

 

[diverbrian]

ScubaToneDog once bubbled...
If he has questions he should ask his instructor which is what I recommended.

I question no ones certification, level of expertise, safe or unsafe practices based on their skill or their choice in any of the above.
I am not an instructor, but I am working on becoming one eventually. I refuse to critique an instructor on their practices especially on the net... If you dont like the way things are taught then teach the way you think is best, but beware, not everyone will approve of your methods either......

Respectfully, if you intend to be an instructor, get used to it. Diving off someone else computer is one of the world's biggest no-no's. It is not unfair critique to say that if you are a professional, you should know this. I dive with two computers and they both read slightly different due to where they are hung on my body. I then go with the most conservative reading.

If I I am noticing the difference in their readings, how about a diver who could be ten ft away (or more from the instructor)? How does the certified diver know if his instructor was pushing the NDL's for him? Obviously, he didn't. He wasn't even asked to plan the dive prior to the start with tables to be sure of this.

As a dive professional, you become a "role model" for the students. Teaching things like both buddies diving off the same computer and not simply having the one diver use tables if he didn't have a computer is not being a good "role model". You may be in a position where you are giving a certified student of an instructor like this oxygen (for DCS) because he went down to 100 ft. following his buddies computer without thinking about the implications. I mean this student was in an advanced class and was basically taught that it is all right to blow off one of the most basic rules of diving (next to don't hold your breath). How can you dive your plan if you never planned your dive?

If it is the Spanish Inquistion to except instructors to promote safe diving practices, then you are about to join the inquisitors as you plan to be an instructor. Be prepared to make some professional calls. You may not like what they will have to be.....

 

[Charlie99]

chrpai once bubbled...
I doubt this guy has a .5cfm SAC.

I'm starting to wonder if this guy is really Mick.

I doubt that it is 0.5cfm, the same way we know he didn't spend all of his time on the bottom. I was just pointing out that ScubaToneDog was making an erroneous statement when he said 110' 30 minutes couldn't be done on an AL80.

Nah, this guy isn't Airhog. My bets are on Scuba Diver 03. Mick could do a pretty good imitation of a 13 year old with hardly trying.

 

[MikeFerrara]

landlocked once bubbled...
I've been gone for a while. Tell me this isn't true!

Well, The shop closes next month. I'll still dive and probably teach but under different conditions and it'll be fun again.

 

[adjuster-jd]

When I discussed asking the instructor how to log the dive, his response was that without using a wheel, or computer there really was no way to determine this information for my logbook... So for those two dives, I have no details as to pressure group.

Ok, so perhaps I got some bad instruction, and admittedly, it was not really detailed.

So, where do I go from here? I'll probably go back home, purchase a computer (likely from Leisurepro (flame suit on) and seek out a little more instruction from my LDS so I can actually learn how to properly plan and dive a multilevel dive.. Did I get my money's worth for the AOW class - well that depends - I did get a AOW C-card out of it and for some people only the card matters. For me, the AOW card is yet another license to learn, and obviously I have a lot more to learn.

We're leaving Maui tomorrow so it's back to the 56 degree quarries of Ohio.......