How To Experience Narcosis With Minimal Risk?

[kr2y5]

In the attempt to nudge the thread back towards the original question, let me ask this: does CO2-induced narcosis feel the same way as Nitrogen-induced narcosis? Does it slowly creep up on you and make you dumber, but easily go away, or does it quickly and violently escalate into a state, where it is hard to control? If you were intent on experiencing narcosis, and the only two options on the table were to (a) go a little deeper, or (b) kick a little harder, which one would be more unsafe?

 

[lowviz]

In the attempt to nudge the thread back towards the original question, let me ask this: does CO2-induced narcosis feel the same way as Nitrogen-induced narcosis?

Apologies for the hijack.

NO, not even remotely the same. Nitrogen narcosis is just getting progressively more stupid, CO2 is much like anticipating a leg cramp, usually starts with the simple thought: "WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING HERE???" Those in the know begin to mentally recite the "litany against fear" at this point. It is all about breathing.

If you were intent on experiencing narcosis, and the only two options on the table were to (a) go a little deeper, or (b) kick a little harder, which one would be more unsafe?

Best advice I can give you for dancing with the devil is "Don't know".

 

[Kevrumbo]

In the attempt to nudge the thread back towards the original question, let me ask this: does CO2-induced narcosis feel the same way as Nitrogen-induced narcosis? Does it slowly creep up on you and make you dumber, but easily go away, or does it quickly and violently escalate into a state, where it is hard to control? If you were intent on experiencing narcosis, and the only two options on the table were to (a) go a little deeper, or (b) kick a little harder, which one would be more unsafe?

There is no way to experience this with minimal risk; the only way to recover from CO2 narcosis is to cease & desist all physical exertion and try to re-establish a normal & relaxed full breathing pattern again, and/or immediately abort the dive.

From my own Deep Air encounter:

. . .I used double AL 11L (AL80's) manifolded cylinders, an AL 11L deco tank of Oxygen, a drysuit for exposure & redundant buoyancy, and a DPV Scooter.

Planned dive was a quick powered scooter descent to 90m [on the deep Oil Rig Platform Eureka] for a few minutes, and then multi-level profile up with most of the time spent at 18m, with O2 deco at 6m as needed. . .

With the scooter off and stowed, all it took was three hard frog kicks into the current at 80m depth [in the video link above, observe the current impacting the divers & how little headway they make with strong frog kicks], and I was instantly overcome with a narcotic CO2 hit: Hyperventilation & difficulty with work-of-breathing the regulator, quickly deteriorating into dyspnea & cognitive confusion/delirium. In the dim ambient light, the only thing I was able to perceive was my Petrel Computer flashing an expected extreme PPO2 Warning prompt of 1.9, and it took a few minutes focused concentration not to panic, just to hang onto a rig structure support beam and try to regain a nominal breathing rate & clear head before starting the ascent solely using the scooter. Not at all pleasant and I don't want to do that again. .

The point is that a Deep Air bounce dive can be treacherous enough even if reasonably planned and prepared as a solo doubles technical dive with the aid of a scooter above . . .On single tank however, any other emergent contingency at depth (i.g. equipment problems; buoyancy difficulties; breathing gas leaks; medical problems etc.) along with the CO2 poisoning & impairment will most likely overwhelm the diver and result in tragedy. .

.

 

[HJeffreyM]

I'm a little late to this discussion and this may seem a bit simplistic, but if you really want to know know what it's like to experience nitrogen narcosis I believe a trip to your local dentist would do the trick nicely. Seriously, if you have any kind of relationship with your dentist, explain you are a diver and need to experience being narc'd so you can recognize it if it happens in the water. If he/she is understanding, you may be able to get 10 or 15 minutes of Nitrous Oxide (N2O) time to attempt a crossword puzzle or other task oriented exercise. In my very brief and very mild experience with being narc'd on air at 110fsw, the experience in the dentists chair was far more analogous than the "martini" analogy.

Happy diving!

 

[KDAD]

Thanks, Kevrumbo for reposting the deep air story. As the discussion started towards co2 narcosis some of that thread was coming back to me and the repost was helpful as it shows how over exertion can bring on co2 narcosis and how remaining calm and focusing on breathing can help clear it up.

HJeffreyM, I am going to give it a try. Not sure if mine uses it or not but I will ask.

 

[bunty99]

I remember the first time I went down to 30m and did a math and verbal question it took me a long time to register what my instructor was asking of me. I only realized after the dive that I was probably narc'ed so that's why it took me so long to answer the questions.

Good thing I didn't do anything stupid haha.

That said, I think more experience at deeper depths improves tolerance to being narc'ed. I certainly don't feel the same now as I did the first time I did a deep dive.

 

[BRT]

There is no way to experience this with minimal risk; the only way to recover from CO2 narcosis is to cease & desist all physical exertion and try to re-establish a normal & relaxed full breathing pattern again, and/or immediately abort the dive.

From my own Deep Air encounter:


.

I have had very rapid recoveries from what I believe was CO2 by breathing fully out, way out, then deep breath twice. The change in my mental state and my breathing was amazing. Before this a couple times I just hung onto something until I was back to normal. Took a long time.

 

[kr2y5]

I feel a clarification is needed. What exactly is the relationship between CO2 "hit" and CO2 narcosis? I've experienced what I understand to be a CO2 hit, but that I understand had nothing to do with narcosis: a sudden severe shortness of breath, but one where I did not feel my mental state was in any way diminished. If anything, I'd mostly feel surprised, the first time anyway: I immediately recognized what was going on, and I tried to breathe slower and deeper, and my body just wouldn't cooperate until some minutes have passed. I experienced this in the shallows, never at depth, so presumably narcosis was out of the picture. I've been assuming that you can experience a CO2 "hit" / shortness of breath without CO2 narcosis, and vice versa. I guess I'm somewhat confused because some of the examples given mostly seem to refer to the former.

 

[Kevrumbo]

I feel a clarification is needed. What exactly is the relationship between CO2 "hit" and CO2 narcosis? I've experienced what I understand to be a CO2 hit, but that I understand had nothing to do with narcosis: a sudden severe shortness of breath, but one where I did not feel my mental state was in any way diminished. If anything, I'd mostly feel surprised, the first time anyway: I immediately recognized what was going on, and I tried to breathe slower and deeper, and my body just wouldn't cooperate until some minutes have passed. I experienced this in the shallows, never at depth, so presumably narcosis was out of the picture. I've been assuming that you can experience a CO2 "hit" / shortness of breath without CO2 narcosis, and vice versa. I guess I'm somewhat confused because some of the examples given mostly seem to refer to the former.

A CO2 hit without narcosis can even happen on post-dive/diveboat recovery, with hard physical exertion in large breaking swells and current, exhaustive over-breathing the reg with water continuously swamping over you, trying to get back & board the diveboat: it literally felt like I was drowning on the surface. . . physical fatigue and exhaustion bordering on respiratory distress.

The only analogous way to describe this would be like running several wind sprints the length a football field --and then being "water-boarded" tortured. . .

 

[kr2y5]

A CO2 hit without narcosis can even happen on post-dive/diveboat recovery, with hard physical exertion in large breaking swells and current, exhaustive over-breathing the reg with water continuously swamping over you, trying to get back & board the diveboat: it literally felt like I was drowning on the surface. . . physical fatigue and exhaustion bordering on respiratory distress.

The only analogous way to describe this would be like running several wind sprints the length a football field --and then being "water-boarded" tortured. . .

Right, that seems to describe what I experienced, and then CO2 narcosis is yet something else that may accompany the CO2 shortness of breath experience, but that may also happen on its own. Right?