how to dive with non-DIR divers?

[Cacia]

I was just making a lighthearted point that sometimes I make concessions and try and dive the way other people are comfortable if I want to dive with them enough or they are friends. It's nice all the way around if the DIR's can buddy with each other, and we all have a good time together here in Hawaii. I have never seen any tension/ friction here at all with local divers on Oahu.

That's a SB thing.

 

[Adobo]

From OP...
Perhaps I was reading this wrong?

Hey, I'm on the DIR side more than you know but I didn't make that statement, the
OP did. I hardly think I was ranting about the problem or bashing DIR. On the contrary, if you read my post you will see I certainly have no animosity toward DIR at all.


It is usually divers who are new to DIR that have that type of attitude or misconception, the ones I've been diving with never think like that.

From the OP's original post:

I got scoffed at, ridiculed, called the master of overkill.

Are you really surprised that he said what he said?

Let's be fair here. How many recent fundies graduates do you know? Personally know?

My personal experience with the newly minted as you call them is something far different than what you characterize. I know quite a few of the DIR divers in my area - newbs and old salts alike. I have known well over 20 divers personally who were in their initial introduction to DIR diving. Personal acquaintance, not internet acquaintance. Their attitudes on the whole have not been the "exclusionary" attitude that you describe. So please forgive me if I take exception to your "it is usually..." statements. They just don't deserve it.

Edit: To give you a very specific example, below is a copy and paste of a PM sent to me when I first started diving:

Welcome to Scubaboard and diving. I take it your Filipino? There's a couple of us Pinoy divers in the Bay Area. Let us know if you need a hand getting started or if you just want to get together for some dives. I would say not to start buying gear until you get checked out but looks like you started already...

This message came from a "newly minted" DIR diver. It is an invitation to dive the bunny slopes, not the black diamonds. Across the board, this is attitude that I have found from the DIR divers in my area. Quite different than the picture you are painting.

 

[Adobo]

Whether or not it is an honest inquiry requesting advice on how to dive with non-DIR divers is somewhat debatable.

Maybe so but I personally prefer to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. We may not agree with how the question was asked but the question is a valid one.

Someone coming in after the fact pointing at the attitude of new graduates of fundies as "the problem" might be a perfectly valid answer in the other forums. However, in the DIR forum, it comes across a rant at best and a bash at worst.

 

[LG Diver]

My personal experience with the newly minted as you call them is something far different than what you characterize. I know quite a few of the DIR divers in my area - newbs and old salts alike. I have known well over 20 divers personally who were in their initial introduction to DIR diving. Personal acquaintance, not internet acquaintance. Their attitudes on the whole have not been the "exclusionary" attitude that you describe. So please forgive me if I take exception to your "it is usually..." statements. They just don't deserve it.

I'll add the perspective of someone curious about DIR but not yet "minted". After posting some questions here I received invitations from a few folks to come out and dive with the DIR locals. Despite my apprehension resulting from rumors, posted here and propagated in some lds's, of exclusionary attitudes I decided to take them up on the offer. I got the opportunity to meet Adobo, Ben_ca, and several of the other locals and have been totally blown away by the warm reception I've received. I've gone from curious about DIR to hounding Beto Nava to schedule another Fundies course in Monterey.

 

[yangnome]

I've gone from curious about DIR to hounding Beto Nava to schedule another Fundies course in Monterey.

Let me know if you have any luck with that...

 

[LG Diver]

Let me know if you have any luck with that...

I got a message from him the other day. He's working to put something together for early June.

 

[onfloat]

hey did onfloat post this thread?

okay...so I will answer FOR him.

in quotes: I put non DIR divers on "my program"

I let them know what the irreducible minimums are.

No solo, have a sound gas plan, etc.

They usually like diving with me so much, they say "okay, Tom, you win"

...end of quotes. Actually, I made that up...but that's how it works. You either want to dive with him or not. No ego-tripping

....wow, a cool DIR diver, they exist

Lamont gets cool status for giving tutorials on theoretical bubble models to strokes

Thanks, you captured my style to the "T" the only thing you left out is "I make black look good!"

Didn't one of them shut your air off without you knowing? I sure it was an accident

Wasn't me.:14:

As for diving with non-DIR divers, well if I followed that rule in the strictest sense I would never be able to dive on the island. I find that if I can explain why I do what I do and then dive and have fun that eventually they will come to see the light (or darkside ) and I make great friends!!

P.S. Welcome back JeffG.

 

[Diver Dennis]

From the OP's original post:


Are you really surprised that he said what he said?

Let's be fair here. How many recent fundies graduates do you know? Personally know?

My personal experience with the newly minted as you call them is something far different than what you characterize. I know quite a few of the DIR divers in my area - newbs and old salts alike. I have known well over 20 divers personally who were in their initial introduction to DIR diving. Personal acquaintance, not internet acquaintance. Their attitudes on the whole have not been the "exclusionary" attitude that you describe. So please forgive me if I take exception to your "it is usually..." statements. They just don't deserve it.

Edit: To give you a very specific example, below is a copy and paste of a PM sent to me when I first started diving:


This message came from a "newly minted" DIR diver. It is an invitation to dive the bunny slopes, not the black diamonds. Across the board, this is attitude that I have found from the DIR divers in my area. Quite different than the picture you are painting.

I don't know the OP but let's be fair here. What did he say? Yes he was treated unfairly in that situation and there is no excuse for that. But what did he say? He said that DIR divers prefer not to dive with non DIR divers. Seems to me that would include you too, if you are DIR. I know this not to be true and I said that. Are you telling me you think it's true? As I said in my post, sweeping statements like that don't do DIR justice. Any exclusionary attitude as you put it, did not come from me. I also did not post that all new DIR divers think like that but the ones who do seem to be new. Hell, I'm on the DIR side here.

The DIR folks I know have been doing it for a while, so no I don't know any "newly minted", I did not mean this term to be offensive and I use that term for any new diver, DIR divers. So yes, this may just be an internet thing but I don't think it was a fair statement. People you meet in person are usually far less opinionated than the ones on the internet and like I've posted on SB many times, the DIR people I've met in person have all become friends.

 

[TSandM]

This charge of elitism gets made with some frequency, and you know what? There's some truth to it.

The OP liked what he saw in his class, and he wants to dive with people who dive that way, in part perhaps because he wants to model them and reinforce the procedures and protocols he was taught, and in part because it's fun.

I still dive with non-DIR people, especially new divers, but not very often. After a while, it's just so much easier and so much more fun to dive with peoplewho dive the same way you do, and I really defy anybody, DIR or not, to argue with that statement.

We all learn to approach the underwater world differently, partly as a result of training and partly as a result of temperament and experience. We sort ourselves into compatible groups and we go diving. There's nothing wrong with that!

 

[Tigerman]

...
We all learn to approach the underwater world differently, partly as a result of training and partly as a result of temperament and experience. We sort ourselves into compatible groups and we go diving. There's nothing wrong with that!

And partly as a result of where we normally dive..