How NAUI Intro to Tech Stacks Up against DIR-F

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TSandM:
I think one of the strengths of Fundies is that it is a class that focuses solely on basic skills. You're not trying to manage a stage (or even doubles, necessarily) or run line or do things in the dark. The class just presents the basics: Buoyancy and trim, non-silting kicks, air-sharing procedures, valve drills and SMB deployment. It teaches some basic gas management and an introduction to thinking about decompression. From what I've learned, it seems that these are the underpinnings of ANY technical training, and somebody who has them down is going to go into his first technical course ahead of the game.

Bob's concern about getting the checkout dives is a real one (I'm lucky, we have a resident GUE instructor in Seattle) but "passing" Fundies is only important if you are intending to do your further training with GUE. TAKING Fundies and mastering the skills is useful no matter what.

It wasn't an expensive course, but it was the best scuba instruction I've had yet.

EXACTLY! Getting instruction that improves my skills and prepares me for my goals, even if I don't pass it the first time, is what matters most to me. I believe that the instructor makes up at least 80% of it, but I wanted to make sure that the NAUI course structure also provided the other full 20%, which I believe the DIR-F already does, hence my original question. My concern right now is that I get back to the basics and the DIR-F or NAUI Intro classes seem to cover that. If they stack up pretty evenly then most like it is going to come down to who can do what and when since I'm sure they are priced pretty much the same. Once I get past the basics and into full tech diving, there are various ways I can go and I haven't decided which one I'm going with. I have NAUI with Chris, GUE with Bob or Brandon and then I have another one that teaches IANTD. As JimC said, it might be good to learn from various people, but first things first.

Once again I'm glad that everyone has been open-minded about my question. I was a bit worried about it turning into a flame-war.
 
NWGratefulDiver:
"The real thing" ... compared to what? I know some seriously good NAUI tech instructors.

<snip>

With GUE's DIRF or NAUI intro to tech as taught by 5thd-x you pretty much know what you'll get. With other NAUI intro to tech courses it's still pretty much unknown - at least i haven't read any course reports.

Will the NAUI instructors video tape the training sessions? How strictly do they stick to the DIR philosophy? For example, do they teach students alternatives to using computers? Do they shun computer use in their own diving? I know some GUE instructors teach that flying after diving is okay. Do NAUI intro to tech instructors also teach this? I'm not trying to argue about whether computers, or flying after diving, or anything else is good or bad, but I do wonder how DIR NAUI's intro to tech will be, or how similar it'll be to DIRF.

As to your follow-up concerns, I fully agree with those and have similar experiences myself. After 6 months I'm still waiting for my DIRF cert, and GUE has so far not replied to my two inquiries about it (albeit the second one was made only 3 days ago so I'm still waiting to see if they bother to reply this time). Granted this isn't a big problem with a DIRF cert, but it gives me pause about taking GUE's higher level courses for which receiving official certs in a timely manner does matter (unless you have dual certs from another agency). Also, my DIRF instructor invited me to sit in on his course while I was in the area recently, yet when I showed up it had been canceled without any notice to me. I've taken classes from SSI, PADI, NAUI, ANDI and GUE and in terms of follow-up/organization GUE is by far the worst in my experience.
 
*Floater*:
Will the NAUI instructors video tape the training sessions? I would hope so, it isn't a standard with NAUI however. How strictly do they stick to the DIR philosophy? DIR as per who?:D seriously some stuff that comes out of the "traditional" DIR camp is just not DIR IMHO.D For example, do they teach students alternatives to using computers? I personally don't teach using dive computers, however a NAUI Tech instructor is free to use computers Do they shun computer use in their own diving? I do not technical dive using a dive computer, I have been known to run tables on my Personal Computer however :D I know some GUE instructors teach that flying after diving is okay. Do NAUI intro to tech instructors also teach this? No, because that is irresponsible of any instructor to "teach". Even with the best possible deco there is no means for ANY instructor to KNOW how our students physiological makeup will affect deco (even in apparently fit non smokers). IF GUE instructors are teaching that then they are being idiots, both from a real world "stuff happens" and from a legal aspect "well your honor, I teach it's OK for my students to fly immediately after diving if they follow the deco schedule I gave them, yes I am aware that virtually every professional and accredited institute that is involved in diving other than my very own GUE recommends not flying after diving, they are all wrong you see... George Irvine, he owns a shipyard in Florida and has done some awesome dives, he says that when you deco THE RIGHT WAY, you can fly right away, so that's what I tell my students. Because of this I can't believe that my student got bent on the flight home following 5 days of diving to over 200 feet on the tech 2 course I taught, the paralysis had to be something else, the time they wasted putting him in the chamber for treatments was sure could have been put to better use than that and getting the nasty lawyer that keeps asking me questions...."I'm not trying to argue about whether computers, or flying after diving, or anything else is good or bad, but I do wonder how DIR NAUI's intro to tech will be, or how similar it'll be to DIRF. Different focus, there will be overlap but thats it.DIR F is more of a get good skills, DIR gear config and think when diving, no matter where you go from here, Intro to Tech is just that, getting people ready to start the journey into technical diving. The instructors needs to evaluate each student prior and during the course and adjust accordingly so it could be that you need to teach everything (like a Fundies) or you can get on with the config (doubles/stages) and mental work (judgement, deco, enviornment etc)

As to your follow-up concerns, I fully agree with those and have similar experiences myself. After 6 months I'm still waiting for my DIRF cert, and GUE has so far not replied to my two inquiries about it (albeit the second one was made only 3 days ago so I'm still waiting to see if they bother to reply this time). Granted this isn't a big problem with a DIRF cert, but it gives me pause about taking GUE's higher level courses for which receiving official certs in a timely manner does matter (unless you have dual certs from another agency). Also, my DIRF instructor invited me to sit in on his course while I was in the area recently, yet when I showed up it had been canceled without any notice to me. I've taken classes from SSI, PADI, NAUI, ANDI and GUE and in terms of follow-up/organization GUE is by far the worst in my experience.

See this NAUI Technical Instructor and GUE Cave 1 certified divers comments above in RED
 
All else being equal (or atleast near-equal) I&#180;d go with the local instructor...

Maybe it&#180;s different were you live but here the techdiving "community" is pretty small and you need to know someone or "earn your stripes" before you get to go on the fun dives. A local instructor is a great resource who can help, not only with your dive skills but also help you actually get in the water and do the dives after the course...

No matter what course you take or who you take it for, the real learning starts after you get your "learning permit" (=c-card)...
 
NWGratefulDiver:
"The real thing" ... compared to what? I know some seriously good NAUI tech instructors.

Look ... I realize this is the DIR forum and all, but the reality isn't always what some of y'all think it is.

...

My humble opinion.

With GUE, or a course from 5thd-x with andrew, Joe or Delia: I know 100% that I am getting the "right" training, regardless of the instructor.

With another course, I *might* get a good instructor, but then again I might not. I think the GUE and 5thd-x set of instructors is small enough and heavily vetted enough that you can't really go wrong.

And I would not compromise my training just because it might be harder to get an instrucor (or if I had to travel). I traveled 400 miles for DIR-F (not much in the scheme of things) and brought a tech1 instructor in from Singapore to California to make sure I got the best training possible (in my opinion)
 
I know I waited until Joe was able to come to Hawaii to teach the tech diver course I took. There were other Trimix courses available through the local shop, but as it turned out even the intructor from that shop was a student in my class.
 
onfloat:
I know I waited until Joe was able to come to Hawaii to teach the tech diver course I took. There were other Trimix courses available through the local shop, but as it turned out even the intructor from that shop was a student in my class.


Yeah, it's a no brainer for me.

And now I'm getting to hear things from other people locally who have taken NAUI/TDO tech from really experienced guys and I'm *really* glad I went GUE.
 
limeyx:
And now I'm getting to hear things from other people locally who have taken NAUI/TDO tech from really experienced guys and I'm *really* glad I went GUE.
and sometimes, you luck out. (TDI Instructor) www.mossmanscuba.com
 
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