How much training is enough

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shakeybrainsurgeon

Contributor
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Location
Pennsylvania
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I have heard the complaints of some that PADI's open water course is too short. I am reminded of my own profession --- neurosurgery --- which used to require ten years of training beyond medical school but was reduced to five or six in the 1970s and further curtailed in the 1990s by laws limiting the number of hours a trainee could work per week. Old-timers graoned that people like me, trained in the 1980s, could not be as good as those with twice the training. In fact, the quality of surgery is higher than it ever was...

For those who say the short courses are dangerous, where is the proof? Recreational diving gets safer by the year, despite the exponential rise in divers and the shorter training courses. Advocates of miltary-style 8 week certication courses should review DAN's annual reports of diving fatalities: virtually all deaths arise from 1) coexisting heart disease; 2) grotesquely poor physical conditioning; 3) highly experienced divers doing risky things; 4) atrocious stupidity; 5) freak accidents. None of these causes can be cured by extending courses from a weekend to four or eight weekends.

Examples from 2005: a woman with Alzheimers gets confused on an OW dive and drowns; a morbidly obese asthmatic dies from a heart attack during an AOW dive; a man dives alone in a quarry with half a tank of air and drowns; a woman with uncontrolled panic attacks does indeed panic, on the surface, sinks and drowns. These deaths would not have been prevented by better training. Anyone dumb enough to dive alone with a half-empty tank will not become a genius after four more weeks of mask-clearing exercises.

The problem here seems not so much a lack of training but a lack of screening. PADI relies on the honesty of trainees in fillling out medical forms when, instead, it should REQUIRE medical clearance for all trainees over forty. Right now, medical clearance is required only if the trainee admits to some disease or risk factor voluntarily. And people lie --- how else to explain a woman with Alzheimer's in an OW class???

Also, instead of just requiring a 200 meter swim, PADI should require trainees to run one mile under twelve minutes. If the goal of training is to prevent deaths and accidents, then excluding the physically unfit or cardiac-challenged will do more than extending the training format.

Finally, there should be some provision for recertification, even for those diving regularly. Most deaths occur in people who were certified when young and healthy, but keep diving despite the onset of diseases that put them at risk in the water. I see people donning wetsuits who need motorized carts in the supermarket. Again, increasing the length of training will not stop these people from breathing their last breath from a regulator.

Personally, other than the above changes, I think the current training regimen seems adequate for the vast majority of us who just want to do reef dives under fifty feet...
 
ow, aow, and rescue *should* be bare minimum for recreational diving

i would add nitrox and DIR-F

after that, i think your "formal" recreational training will be over; just go out and dive a lot and try to use your skills and learn as much as you can from each dive
 
shakeybrainsurgeon:
I....

The problem here seems not so much a lack of training but a lack of screening. ....

The problem is that people have the wrong attitude. Both students and instructors are guilty of this, I think is really more of a problem in society.

Noone is willing to say "does this make sense for me" nor are most people willing to be accountable for their own actions.

If you are going to dive, then be willing to learn and learning doesnt' stop just because you are not in a classroom. Experience is the best teacher, but also the harshest disciplinarian.

IMO, more enforced training just means that people feel even more removed from the responsibility of living with their actions. PADI's materials are actually quite well written, but how many go into an OW course and just want to get through it so they can go diving? Again, it's about having the right attitude.
 
I think much depends on ones goals in diving as to how much training one seeks. The occassional vaction diver probably doesn't really need to take a rescue course. He/she may benefit from a nitrox course or maybe not given shallow reef dives of 50 feet or less.

The biggest issue I have with the short courses i.e the two day courses is that they really don't address attaining skills that maximize "safe" diving. Leaving aside medical issues as a cause of injury or death, the thing that can cause one to get injured diving is loss or lack of bouyancy control. People who loose control on descent and rupture ear drums. People who ascend too fast and rupture ear drums. People who ascend too fast and experience some flavor of DCS/DCI and related maladies. Bouyancy control cannot be mastered with just the slightest amount of exposure or practice especially when most such courses rely on the students being grossly overwieghted to begin with.

On the other hand I don't see that an OW course needs to be 40, 50 or 60 hours of training either.

I am curious as to what constitutes a military style course???
 
The highest risk category for accidents are infrequent divers who don't practice skills and who dive once per year. A game of basketball is a lot more physically challenging than most diving and you don't need to pass a physical to play a game with your buds. Diving is a lot more mental than physical.
 
H2Andy:
ow, aow, and rescue *should* be bare minimum for recreational diving

i would add nitrox and DIR-F

after that, i think your "formal" recreational training will be over; just go out and dive a lot and try to use your skills and learn as much as you can from each dive

I agree with aow and rescue as desirable for people who are recreational divers.

However, the vast majority of people who get certified are not divers--they are just people who make a couple dives once in a while on a vacation, typically in ideal conditions at a shallow depth with some degree of supervision. For them, OW is plenty--they'll forget anything past the gross basics anyway.

I would only add nitrox as desirable for someone who dives fairly regularly and might do repetitive dives for repetitive days.

And DIR-F? I'm not touching that suggestion. Are we in the protected speech zone here? ;)

theskull
 
I have been diving for many years and I remimber my first instructor did not let 2 students take the open water portion of the course because they were not ready when the rest of the class was ready. They respected his judgement and paid for more training. Now a days that would be cause for the instructor to be sued for breach of contract or something. Times have changed and the instructors today need to have the balls to inform a student when he/she thinks they are not ready to advance whether it be open water or AOW. In my opinion ( for what it's worth ) I blame the instructors as well as the learning disabilities of the students. As for as getting a lot of training to be a good diver, I have dove with a lot of newbees that were safer to dive with than many AOW,DM, and even instructors. Do we get lax with our safety as we gain a multitude of cards to put in our pockets? So I guess I agree with shakeybrainsurgeon in a way.
 
H2Andy:
ow, aow, and rescue *should* be bare minimum for recreational diving

i would add nitrox and DIR-F

after that, i think your "formal" recreational training will be over; just go out and dive a lot and try to use your skills and learn as much as you can from each dive

With those kind of requirements, how many divers, as a percentage of current numbers, do you think would get certified every year? I would guess less than 25%.

Vacation divers would just dive without a certification, just like many do now on resort dives.

I'm also a motorcycle rider. Go to motorcycle forums and this same thing is argued. How much training is enough? When should we allow new riders to get a license? Which bikes should we let them ride? Why are idiots out there killing themselves who have no training and got in over their heads? I think a motorcycle is more dangerous than SCUBA and any jackass can go buy one a ride it off the lot. Compared to that, the structure in place to ensure people who get and use SCUBA gear know what they are doing works pretty well, considering the "general population" is engaging in this sport.
 
You know, I think you can survive diving with very little training. In fact, I know you can, because I did. My skills were between nonexistent and horrible after OW, and not much improved by AOW. At twenty dives, I still did my descents on my back. I had a handful of uncontrolled ascents early on (one from 70 feet). I'm very lucky I didn't get hurt -- The only thing I had going for me was that I don't panic easily.

So you can survive. But diving isn't going to be a huge amount of fun, and it's going to be anxiety-ridden as long as you know you don't have the whole thing under very good control. We were actually talking about that today, that if I had gone on as I was, I would quite likely eventually have scared myself badly enough to quit.

On the other hand, with OW/AOW/Rescue and MOST IMPORTANTLY DIR-F, I dove today on big walls in poor viz, and walls in current in poor viz, in kelp, got entangled and coped with it, lost my buddy briefly because of the entanglement and coped with that, kept my buoyancy and was able to position myself where I wanted to be despite the current (and a little up and down current, too). Most importantly, I was able to HAVE FUN in challenging conditions, and stay safe.

How much training? You can survive Molokini with very little, as long as nothing goes wrong. You can revel in it if your buoyancy control is solid and you can position yourself where you want to be. It becomes dance when you match that with a similar buddy.

I'm still signed up for more training. As far as I can tell, it will just make diving more and more fun.
 
shakeybrainsurgeon:
In fact, the quality of surgery is higher than it ever was...
Quite possibly because the trainee's aren't falling asleep while trying to perform surgery:D
 

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