How much should Diver Training cost?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

True.

Is that why we see so many excellently skilled OW divers around the resorts? LMAO

Most of them received the full required course of one of the sponsoring agencies from one of their certified instructors (like yourself).

Perhaps you should start rejecting those C-cards. That has got to be good for business. Now, is that funny?
 
Most of them received the full required course of one of the sponsoring agencies from one of their certified instructors (like yourself).

Perhaps you should start rejecting those C-cards. That has got to be good for business. Now, is that funny?

Happily, I don't teach OW, nor do I guide recreational divers.

I do fail a few at the starting post for technical or wreck training though...

It's not funny, for me or for them.... but they're the ones who chose to train wherever they trained before...
 
A recent thread got me thinking about what people expect when it comes to learning to become a diver. Firstly we need to decide on 'What makes a diver?' For me, a diver is self-sufficient, has some experiences in a range of conditions and can perform basic rescue on themselves and their buddy. They are not Cousteau, however they can perform in 'typical' conditions and can adapt appropriately if the conditions worsen.

If you personally disagree with this definition, that's OK but for the purpose of the thread, let's please assume that this is the definition.

This training has been broken up (modularised) by the popular recreational training agencies (PADI, SSI etc), so that not all the training needs to be done at one time. This in turn means that people can complete portions of the training while 'on vacation' and this led to a boom in recreational diving, which led in turn to dive centers opening in thousands of popular holiday destinations around the world.

However, again for this thread lets assume that all this training is done together (ie. no time constraints). A complete beginner walks in to a dive center and walks out as a 'diver', with the aforementioned skill set.

I'd be interested in hearing what beginner divers believe should be the cost of learning to become a diver. $500? $5000? No equipment purchases- just the training.

Just judging from my own experience as an instructor, I can produce a diver fitting just about any definition of competency with about 15-20 hours of in-water instruction, 10-12 hours of theory instruction and maybe 10-15 OW dives. Some instructors who are more efficient can probably do it faster than this. There are also some people who can't learn it at this tempo but they are far and away the exceptions if you have this much time.

Translating that into hours then you're looking at about 30 hours of basic instruction and let's say 7 whole days of diving, which for the instructor is another .... let's call it 60 hours of effort,... for a total of about 90 hours of total effort. Using a wage of $10/hr as a basic starting point then the cost of instruction, not including pool time and equipment is somewhere around $900 for a "perfect world" course. This cost is also easily split 4 ways (an ideal size for a group, if you ask me)

In reality, when I was working for a shop we did courses with an "average" duration from start to finish of about 40 hours at the OW level, which included about 7-odd hours of in water training. I found this tempo to be quite high in many cases and resulted in certifying too many what I would consider "marginal" beginners. In my opinion about 80% of people can learn to dive well enough for the OW cert in 40 hours. The problem in the real world is that shops often do nothing (or too little) for the other 20% in order to deliver adequate quality for those divers who can't learn at that pace.

I quit teaching at the LDS when they introduced a "new" "streamlined" OW course that basically cut down the amount of time for the OW course from 40 to just under 30 hours. At that tempo, you see a clear switch from 80% do fine and 20% need remedial in-water time to a situation whereby the only students who actually learn to dive adequately at this pace are ones who could have learned it on their own by reading the book and watching some youtube videos.

So all of this introduction is to present the case that a high-level quality norm will require more than 40 hours of training and probably up to double that.

So what should it cost? 90 hours of instructor time is going to run you about $1000 if you pay the instructor round-about minimum wage (about double what many instructors actually get paid by shops). Add to that about $250 for pool time and that's the cost you're going to run as a group. If you split it 4 ways (ideal group size) then each student pays about $300 (let's call it $350) per student. But we're not done yet, because equipment rentals for the ideal course are going to run you about $500 by the time all is said and done, which means that each student is going to need to invest arount $800-850 for the "ideal" OW course. Call that $1000 for a bit of profit and to deal with unforeseen events and that's about the most you should expect to pay for a highest quality OW course.

That's obviously too much to ask for OW training so what I do now that I'm freelancing is something else and it has to do strictly with keeping costs down. Most shops offer the OW course including equipment for about $350 where I live (actually € but lets call it $). That includes all the materials, 5 sessions in the pool and all the pool gear + 2 days of check out dives plus the gear. They literally would lose money on that if they paid their instructors. So what I do I sign them up for that, charge them a bit over the $350 to cover my expenses and use that as the foundation. Then I add pool dives to it as necessary depending on what the student needs to learn it well and I increased the number of OW dives from 4 to 10 at the added expense of 2 days of equipment rentals plus the commitment to make 2 extra days and 2 longer days. It requires me to keep the groups small (max 4) and logistics tight so the training days don't drag on but for students who want better training it's a good approach because you get a LOT more bottom time in real world diving conditions than a standard courses offer. Ultimately, it's my experience that the more "real world" learning a student gets the better they can dive at the end of the day.

Obviously this makes my course more expensive than a standard shop course (without being ridiculous) but allows me to offer high-quality training by "piggybacking" on what the shop offers. Fortunately I found a good partner for it who sees that my approach and his can exist side-by-side because we're not competing for the same "type" of student... he also sees the results when my students become active divers (many of the shop's students will only dive on vacations) and buy gear, con-ed, and trips that the shop offers, and so forth. I'm still not making minimum wage teaching but at least now I'm teaching diving in a such way that I can take pride in the results and really deliver what I promised.

For con-ed I don't go through the shop at all but I'm only able to teach students who have their own gear.

R..
 
I mentioned this in another thread recently, but I think I will repeat it for the same of comparison.

I bought a new toilet two weeks ago. I just hate plumbing, so while purchasing it, I checked a local plumbing company to see what they would charge to install it. They said they charge $175 per hour, and they estimated it would take 1.5 hours, or a bit over $260. I called around--that was pretty much the standard. People must be willing to pay those prices. They must think it is worth it.

Installing a toilet is a simple but awkward process--almost anyone can do it. Because the fact that I hate plumbing was the only thing standing in my way of saving money, I did it myself. It did indeed take me 1.5 hours, almost to the minute, so I paid myself the highest hourly wage of my life that day.

I normally do my own electrical work, too, but because the consequences can be much more extreme, I am more picky. I recently had a couple of issues that had me a bit nervous about doing myself, so we called in an electrician. His company used a flat rate system for certain repairs rather than charging hourly. Again, those prices seem to be standard around here, so people must think they are fair. Based on the amount of time he took to effect those repairs, I would guess he got about $1,000 per hour.

In comparison, in most of my scuba instruction, I do not receive minimum wage. If we tried to charge enough to pay instructors minimum wage, people would consider the charges outrageous, and we would get no customers.

Draw whatever lessons you wish.
 
It should cost as much as it does. For me, OW selection was based upon price and convenience. I am very comfortable learning from books and mentors, though. I believe I fit in the OP definition of a diver. All told, my OW cost me about $450-$500 not counting equipment purchases. I think that's a reasonable price, but I don't believe I would classify everyone that finished my OW class a diver by the definition provided. I think some people simply require more instruction to reach the same level of skill and those people, by definition, will incur higher costs.

If I had been expected to pay $1k up front I wouldn't be diving today. I wouldn't have purchased gear (new or used) and I wouldn't be booking trips. Everyone loses that way, as far as I'm concerned.

Modular seems to be working. Some believe it's not creating the same caliber of diver that "complete" classes did. It does create one hell of a market though, and that means a lot of people have "dream jobs" working for pennies on the dollar and some people have "dream vacations" getting to see some amazing stuff without a lot of time or cost incurred. I see that as a successful business model. Millions of dives every year, hundreds? thousands? of accidents/incidents. Is the percentage really so high that we should go back to the old method of teaching? I don't think so, despite my opinion that more skills earlier would be better.

So, I think ~$500 is a reasonable cost to getting initial certs and getting wet long enough to decide if you want more. DSD simply isn't enough time or exposure to really get a feel for things unless you're the "Love at first sight" type (like me). Cutting costs even more would also be a disservice, I think. I'm pretty much of the opinion that's about as low as you can go (barring some sort of mentor/club thing) and actually create a "diver" by the original definition. Again, some people will require more instruction and instructors deserve money for their time.
 
I paid 170 for 10 hours of pottery instruction, and $60 an hour for archery instruction. at that rate Scuba would be $510-1800.
 
I paid 170 for 10 hours of pottery instruction, and $60 an hour for archery instruction. at that rate Scuba would be $510-1800.

Apples and oranges. The odds are you did not buy pottery making equipment from your pottery instructor, and the archery instructor wasn't hoping to sell you a bow and some arrows. Most, although certainly not all, OW instructors are tied into a retail system that hopes that the OW training expense is an entre' to selling the student equipment.
 
I don't remember what I paid for my OW. It was a discount price and it was back in 95. It was given on the military bad for active duty and dependents for a reduced rate.
all of my other training I've taken from my husband for free.
Sorry. I guess I'm not much help.
Hoping to start taking some cave and tech classes. I'll make up for all my freeloading with that.
 
Apples and oranges. The odds are you did not buy pottery making equipment from your pottery instructor, and the archery instructor wasn't hoping to sell you a bow and some arrows. Most, although certainly not all, OW instructors are tied into a retail system that hopes that the OW training expense is an entre' to selling the student equipment.

So... 'hoping to sell equipment' is the difference between $60/hour and less than minimum wage?

Dammit! PADI and SSI sold us down the river...
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom