How much experience does one need before attempting Cavern/Intro to Cave?

[nereas]

I would suggest you find yourself an NACD or AG-DIR or GUE instructor, and let him/her tell you when you would be ready to take a specific class. Note also there are certain NAUI-TECH instructors who are also NACD certified. Any of those would be your best bet. Your life is going to depend on whom you choose.

Chickdiver here on SB is one of the best. I don't know whether you live near her.

Since you need to re-gear for cave diving, the sooner the better. Caves are backplate and wing territory, with hogarthian minimalization. This way you won't waste your money on crap-BCDs nor cheapo-regs to start with.

After your gear is proper, then you need to learn about perfect buoyancy. The open water courses do not teach perfect buoyancy; they only teach practical buoyancy. So this will be new for you. It may take you several dives with a great instructor to develop this.

You also need to learn the knees-bent feet-up cave/wreck frog kick. It is like sculling with your fins, only done very carefully.

You can learn and practice all the above with a single tank rig. But ultimately, you will need a set of double tanks. LP 85s are ideal, therefore if you are planning to buy tanks anytime soon, you should look at single LP 85s. You can combine them with a manifold and bands later.

I say, don't wait. The instructor will have minimum dive requirements imposed by his/her agency for new students. You need to meet those, but that is all. Depending on your instructor, and his/her agency, that will be your answer.

Nobody on the internet can answer that, other than such an instructor.

 

[Caver95]

Peter nails it. My wife and I have not taken DIR-F. We did however work on buoyancy and trim prior to class. We were comfortable with our long hoses and other gear (it was not new on the first day of class). It was about 2 years from OW cert to Intro to Cave cert. But of course 2 years to a vacation diver is a handful of dives, so its not time but number of dives and working on skills. 100+ dives seems somewhere near correct.

My biggest problem due to lack of formal training was the frog kick. I thought I knew how to frog kick. I was wrong and doing it wrong. Unlearning something is hard - but more than that I am not very good at the frog kick - especially the modified frog kick. DIR-F or formal/informal mentoring by a trained pro/knowledgeable person would have let me known that and work on it. Instead I had to try very hard in open water before we got into the cavern to correct the kick. Then work on it that night. Then concentrate on it every dive of the class. Even with all that my frog kick wasn't great at the end. I can do it and it doesn't silt up the joint - its just not finished quite right and I don't get the power I should - leading to kicking more often and using more air.

How is that kick coming?

 

[Dark Eternal]

Here is my take on it (flame away)

Every diver is very different. Im am dive wise not a very experienced diver (about 50 dives). However, I have dove with tons of divers with 100-200 dives that are far worse divers skill wise than I am. I am by no means saying I am a great diver, im still learning new stuff every dive, but I have an extensive history in the water that gave me a head start. I was at Vortex today and was more than comfortable in the cavern and into the first 100 feet or so of the cave. However I would not even consider taking some divers who are far more experienced as far as dive numbers in there with me that I have dove with. I am taking several tech classes this spring and have done lots of homework and practice with certified people. This is why I was ok with the dive. What I am getting down to is it really depends on the diver. I feel that I am ready to take these classes, but some people may not be with 50 dives. Judge your own skills, can you do the man made caves at vortex without silting them? Can you silt them on purpose inside and follow the steps to make it out easily? Is your buoyancy up to par with what it must be? Number of dives means alot, but not everything in every case is the bottom line that I am getting at.

BTW you would have to be pretty stupid to get yourself killed in the cavern at Vortex. Wedging yourself into a small crack with no buddy is the only possible way I see something going wrong. Now the cave is very developed, but is still a cave and must be treated like one.

 

[contender]

Hmmm...well, you've all given me a lot to think about.

Thanks for the responses...

Just a couple more reasons to reconsider going into a cavern untrained
1) Caves can get closed to divers due to deaths occuring to often. This hurts us as trained cave divers, since we put in alot of time, money and effort getting trained properly.

2) Recovery divers don't enjoy recovery diving, it takes them away from their family, and works them over mentally.

It's really about respect for the divers who have the proper training to dive in the cave environment, we have put in our time to get there. It's also about respect for your own saftey, and for your family, I am quite sure they don't want to bury a loved one because of a stupid decision. Take your time, work on trim, buoyancy and comfort underwater, get these perfected. Once you have these qualities then you move to the next level, that progression depends on you and how quickly you can master them. Good luck and keep diving you will get there, and the effort will be worth it.

P.S. Forget about any future plans for your life, because once you get there that's all you will want to do!

 

[contender]

Here is my take on it (flame away)

Every diver is very different. Im am dive wise not a very experienced diver (about 50 dives). However, I have dove with tons of divers with 100-200 dives that are far worse divers skill wise than I am. I am by no means saying I am a great diver, im still learning new stuff every dive, but I have an extensive history in the water that gave me a head start. I was at Vortex today and was more than comfortable in the cavern and into the first 100 feet or so of the cave. However I would not even consider taking some divers who are far more experienced as far as dive numbers in there with me that I have dove with. I am taking several tech classes this spring and have done lots of homework and practice with certified people. This is why I was ok with the dive. What I am getting down to is it really depends on the diver. I feel that I am ready to take these classes, but some people may not be with 50 dives. Judge your own skills, can you do the man made caves at vortex without silting them? Can you silt them on purpose inside and follow the steps to make it out easily? Is your buoyancy up to par with what it must be? Number of dives means alot, but not everything in every case is the bottom line that I am getting at.

BTW you would have to be pretty stupid to get yourself killed in the cavern at Vortex. Wedging yourself into a small crack with no buddy is the only possible way I see something going wrong. Now the cave is very developed, but is still a cave and must be treated like one.

It's more than silting out the place. We have different air management rules, light rules, entanglement rules, guideline rules, etc. any of these can get you killed.
The problem is that you not knowing all the rules, won't know when you are in trouble. Over confidence can get you killed as well. Dive safe and smart, get the training. Remember cave diving is "Deceptively Easy". There are many OW divers who thought that it was easy, now they are a statistic.

 

[timle]

How is that kick coming?

Honestly I think it was somewhat improved on the last trip. Should be back this weekend if everyone is healthy.

 

[Dark Eternal]

I realize this, know about them, and am 100% for sure taking the classes this spring to get me to the point where I need to be to do more advanced cave diving safely. I was not trying to say that me going in there was a good example, my point was more on the lines of every diver is very different.

 

[nereas]

Honestly I think it was somewhat improved on the last trip. Should be back this weekend if everyone is healthy.

You can practice this kick and work out the relevant muscles in the pool too, with your fins, mask, and snorkel.

 

[nereas]

...to get yourself killed in the cavern at Vortex. Wedging yourself into a small crack with no buddy is the only possible way I see something going wrong...

Exactly. And the way some people wear their harnesses, really tight, they would be stuck for sure.

 

[nereas]

...

P.S. Forget about any future plans for your life, because once you get there that's all you will want to do!

Shipwrecks are the same way!