How Miflex HP ruined my dive.

[Bogie]

Thanks for the post. Did you ask Miflex about the defect?

 

[Ragnar]

Thanks for the post. Did you ask Miflex about the defect?

I posted a link in the XS Scuba forum, we'll see. I'm sure they won't like me ripping on them here but I really don't care. I like the fact that manufacturers are so well represented on this site, but I don't temper anything I say about their products as in the end the feedback they get from us can only help everyone involved, including them.

Take a close look and think about how else the swivel connector could be attached like that over the flare fitting. The size of the hose only affects the swag fitting. North of that, the Miflex connection is the same as other HP hoses. I suspect it was a manufacturing defect, not a design defect.

It is definitely a design defect in the sense that it's not durable or reliable. The flare fitting should be one piece and extend into the hose before swaging. That's IT, no extra sealing surface to come unscrewed. I'm pretty damn sure that's they way normal HP scuba hoses are made and I would venture to say the Phantom as well. There are tons of places that make custom HYD hoses, I've had them made for everything from motorcycle brake lines to automotive AC systems and have never seen a two piece fitting like that.

 

[redacted]

It is definitely a design defect in the sense that it's not durable or reliable. The flare fitting should be one piece and extend into the hose before swaging. That's IT, no extra sealing surface to come unscrewed. I'm pretty damn sure that's they way normal HP scuba hoses are made and I would venture to say the Phantom as well. There are tons of places that make custom HYD hoses, I've had them made for everything from motorcycle brake lines to automotive AC systems and have never seen a two piece fitting like that.

Looks to me like both of those were 3 separate pieces with the flare fitting crimped to the swag. It would not surprise me if they are threaded and crimped for added reliability.

 

[danvolker]

Looks to me like both of those were 3 separate pieces with the flare fitting crimped to the swag. It would not surprise me if they are threaded and crimped for added reliability.

Has anybody run this by the manufacturer yet? I can't wait to hear how they are going to respond to this...

A lot of us have been "thinking" about miflex hoses for some time now.....while this incident makes me happy I did not run out and buy one right away.....IF, they were to fix this design flaw, and were extremely upfront and proactive on this failure and the re-design...this whole affair could be just lots of "good" media blasting for them, and could work out well for them in the long run...But, if they fail to deal with this in a way we can embrace, the media effect should do some significnant damage to their sales of HP hoses.

Regards,
DanV

 

[Ragnar]

Looks to me like both of those were 3 separate pieces with the flare fitting crimped to the swag. It would not surprise me if they are threaded and crimped for added reliability.

Seriously, are you messing with me?......added reliability?........you have read this whole thread right?.........from Jacque Cousteau until Miflex HP there have probably been less failures than in the last year!!!

Yes they are both three pieces, the correct one with two failure points, and the Miflex with three and the third being a guaranteed failure.....it's just a matter of time, but apparently I can't convince you of that so will stop trying.......

 

[Marcodivers]

That's the first thing I tried, it doesn't work. That middle fitting is free to rotate freely even when the B-nut is tightened to the SPG since it's sealed by an o'ring and not a face seal. And when it came unscrewed there was no immediate way to screw it back in regardless of if there was pressure on the system or not. This design with nothing to lock the threads and no way to tighten the fitting really baffles me.....it's junk. There's no way a design like this would make it past certification in other industries that are more closely controlled.

I guess if you had the male side to the fitting and tightened it to that instead of an SPG you could stop it from rotating and then have something to put a wrench to, but in the end it's just nonsense.

Curious.. have you tried the air spool and adapter that is suggested for the hose?
It's a highland product from xs.. I have over 90 dives on the hose without issue.

 

[Marcodivers]

I currently use a inline adapter and airspool from Highland and it cured this issue. Although it does swivel easily it seems to take most of the stress from this joint.

Knock on wood, I've gotten over 90 dives on the hose without issue. But I suggest you only dive with gear you are personally comfortable with.

 

[Marcodivers]

Curious is the third piece of the first picture a large airspool? If so did you remove an oring before taking the picture?

 

[Ragnar]

Thanks for the post. Did you ask Miflex about the defect?

I gave them two and a half months to answer in the manufacturers forum here, is that enough?

Well here it is, I'm sure some will still not see it and will probably want me to cut a normal hose to prove the difference, which I just may do if I get ticked off enough, but I burned up three dremel wheels just to get this far. The piece on the left is swaged to the hose. Then the piece in the middle is inserted into the piece on the right and tightened to the piece on the left.

On a normal hydraulic line there is no middle piece......the middle piece and the one on the left would be one and directly swaged to the hose eliminating the ability for the stupid design seen here from coming unscrewed and ruining your dive.

I don't care that there is something from Highland Mills that is supposed to fix this problem......that would be adding yet more complexity to a design that should be simple and bulletproof.

The Phantom braided line use a normal two piece swage design and you should be using that or a regular rubber hose instead. Their other LP hoses are nicer than Miflex also with what seems like tighter braiding and nicer looking fittings. Safe diving.

 

[ambertiger]

There are now a lot of different types and brands of Milaflex hoses on the market. Iknow that some are manufactured in Europe, some in Taiwan and yet more in China. Could you name the brand please?