How many non-tech divers carry a pony bottle?

[Mike Veitch]

I have one in Manila for sale Mike...

mine as well bring it along then... how big?

 

[moneysavr]

I use a 30 CuFt Spare TANK,on any dive over 55FSW.
its on, its valve up! and I keep a long hose tucked away and the 2nd on a necklace.I can pass the reg off, I can use it if I need air,or I can yank the whole tank off and pass it off! then I take off the Octo on my main reg and plug it easy to do.
Kind of a modified East coast wreck rig.

It has been said after you dive a while you will realize you need to save your self as you are responsible for yourself and the buddy system is a fallacy and a false sense of comfort!

I should know I lost a good friend, Diver and SB member a while back and he was diving with a instructor and DM.
On a OOA,Bad gas management,or critical failure its seconds that count not minutes as your body use up that last bit of air primal instincts take over. and as you swim over and suck air out of flooded reg as you dint clear it and water down your lungs as you gasp this sets off a whole mess of reactions that are most likely fatal.

So my 2 cents, I don't care the style =If you Dive DIR,HOG,REC,TEC,TEK<REC, have a redundant air system, keep it simple,keep it close,the best IMO is a separate reg system totally separate of your main breathing source with no valves to turn on or any movement next to popping the back up reg in your mouth or passing it off to a buddy in need,Back ups = pony's can strapped or slung what ever makes you warm and fuzzy,sizes depends on depths,I will post a chart if I have time on depths and air needed to get top side but a 30 CUft is the min for dives in the 100FSW range,
OH IMO SPxxxx air can,could or will KILL YOU! if you think it is a back up.
Dive safe,
Brad

From Scuba steve
Well, you opened it up bud, let's hear how you call your buddy's death a failure of team, and I'll show you three divers that can't spell team.

Steve,uhm you need to save yourself and help others,extra redundant gas can and will save lives in the proper amount-DONE! daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

 

[ArcticDiver]

What's false about having the gas required to get you safely to the surface? ...

So far you haven't come up with any falid reason why it's bad to carry enough extra gas to save your butt....

Terry

Not my message at all.

Did you actually read all the post? If you did; did you think about it for at least a few moments before posting a reply? If you are actually serious, and if that is in doubt, both are mandatory for an intelligent discussion.

==============================================================

Looking back over this thread it seems to me the factual points have been made and it is time for it to end.

 

[Gil57usa]

I am not a technical diver, but I am pretty sure that they never use pony bottles. It is often for people to have pony bottles as a "bail out", which I believe is dangerous is it prevent people from having proper gas management. I think the main rule or piece of advice that I know is the following: always make sure to have enough gas in your main gas supply for you and your buddy to return to the surface safely following normal ascend procedures.

If you rely on the pony bottle, you may forget about proper gas management and planning, and the pony bottle may not be enough for you or your buddy to return to the surface from a deep dive (100 ft and deeper) when you will have to ascend slowly to provent any risk of decompression sickness. You can find a lot about proper gas management online, one of the most conservative ones, is to have 2/3 of your gas supply as the point of return, which means you will start your way back to the surface. It is one of the most conservative and is not always necessary, but it will ensure that both yourself and your buddy will have enough air supply to safely return to the surface, without any rush, as any kind of nervousness will increase your gas consumption, and I am sure you understand what that may imply in the worst case scenario. Be safe. Enjoy diving. Make sure to plan it properly. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

While I almost always dive doubles there are times I use a single tank. When using a single, I always use a pony bottle. It is not there in order to bypass proper gas management, but rather in the event of a first stage malfunction, I will have a redundant system that will allow me to ascend safely. I acknowledge that the industry standard for recreational diving is a first and second stage and an octo. This is fine if the first stage never malfunctions. Some of us however simply prefer a redundant system.

 

[atedeschi]

I not sure if this has been said because I only scanned some of the post but in NJ if you are diving a single 80cu ft dive you have a 19cu ft pony bottle. When doing dive over 100 ft we usually have doubles so you have the reduncy that way. Back to a single with a pony we have one second stage on the large tank with a pressure gauge and on the pony just a second stage and that is it. If you have any more question let me know.

 

[fire_diver]

You have gone to great pains to contort my post. Clearly I have never advocated not carrying extra gas. In fact, mine, and several other folks' posts, have said that the minimal amounts of extra gas pony users carry is more false security than anything.

It is the false sense of security provided by the pony that is the primary fault with its' use. Most of the arguments for a pony contemplate an equipment failure and an immediate ascent to the surface. In fact, an equipment failure is extremely rare and should not be the primary consideration.

On the other hand many human and environmental factors fairly often extend dives beyond what is planned. Such things as current change, entanglement, searching for a mislaid buddy, narcossis, finding that "perfect" image at the end of the dive, etc are not unusual.

So, to me and others, once a diver decides their diving circumstances demand extra gas it is time to go the whole route, not see just how little extra gas they can carry and get away with it.

After all that is what this whole argument boils down to: Just how much extra gas should I carry once I decide a single tank isn't enough? One school of thought is to carry the minumum amount of extra gas they can rationalize; a pony. The other school of thought is to just add a second tank like the first and effectively double the amount of available gas. Seems to me the logic of the second group is superior to the pony folks.

OK, you complain about not taking your whole post, so here it is....

Para 1- You claim people using a pony are carrying minimal amount of EMERGENCY air, but you give no calculations to back up that claim. You then claim that a pony is FALSE SECURITY.

Para 2- You AGAIN call ponies false security. Then you say that we shouldn't worry about equip failures. Isn't why the Octo came into being? So that each buddy has a spare in case the other has an equipment problem.

Para 3- You reveal your pony bias. Claiming that it is being used to extend dive time. You show your ignorance and bias, and paint all other divers with your own personal problems.

Para 4- You again make the statement that extra air is for extending dive time.

Para 5- For a third time you comment on extending dive time with more air. Then you insult the users of pony tanks, and claim yourself and those who think (ignorantly) like you are "superior" to the rest of us.

If you can't see that people use ponies as emergency ascent air for that "extremely rare equipment failure " and NOT for staying down a little longer, then maybe you shouldn't find fault in those who do.

FD

 

[Meng_Tze]

I think it has all been said and this thread is now turning into a personal thing.... all info to make a wise decision whether to carry a pony (and how big) or not is here, the final decision is with the individual.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

It has been said after you dive a while you will realize you need to save your self as you are responsible for yourself and the buddy system is a fallacy and a false sense of comfort!

I should know I lost a good friend, Diver and SB member a while back and he was diving with a instructor and DM.
On a OOA,Bad gas management,or critical failure its seconds that count not minutes as your body use up that last bit of air primal instincts take over. and as you swim over and suck air out of flooded reg as you dint clear it and water down your lungs as you gasp this sets off a whole mess of reactions that are most likely fatal.

Well, you opened it up bud, let's hear how you call your buddy's death a failure of team, and I'll show you three divers that can't spell team.

Please tell me you're not an instructor teaching this archaic nonsense.

 

[ClayJar]

I concur with Meng_Tze and hereby nominate this thread for closure. Seconds?

 

[fire_diver]

Aye!!!