How long do patents last?

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No, you only deprive anyone of anything if you would have bought it if you didnt download it! :no:
This is the major thing that i.e. record companies completely fail to understand. If I download a song it does NOT mean that I otherwise would have bought it, nor that they lost a million usd because I did, which they seem to think. At best they lost the ammount THAT ONE SONG is worth and at worst I wouldnt even have listened to it or their band at all..
My mother was a publisher. From time to time, someone would market unauthorized copies of her books. They paid no royalties. She had no practical recourse, but what they were doing is stealing.

Copying one song or one copy of a program for your own use is such a petty matter that nobody is likely to care much. But marketing unauthorized copies, or making it easy for large numbers of people to download unauthorized copies, without paying royalties, cuts into the author's royalties and the authorized publisher's profits. In this case, maybe some people will download who would not have purchased, but others who would have purchased will take the free download instead.

What it really comes down to is this philosophical question: If I create a novel, or a poem, or a song, or a computer program, do I have the right to withhold it from anyone who won't pay me for it, or does every novel written, every song composed, every computer program created, automatically and immediately belong to the entire human race?

Your argument is that if you are not hurting anyone, it's okay to use someone else's creation. It's a fundamental philosophical question of intellectual property. Is there such a thing or not? And you conveniently ignore the impact on the author's livelihood of unauthorized mass distribution of something someone else created. Authors provide something of value, and they can do this only if they get paid for it, and royalties are the way they get paid. You are telling the author, "I liked your song enough to download it, but I don't think it really has any value, so I'll listen to it without paying you anything." If you like the song well enough to listen to it, the decent thing to do is pay the author his royalties.

You assert that it is morally justified to use someone else's property as long as they do not lose by it. This is a convenient justification to not pay for what you use. What if someone opens your garage during the night, and takes your car out for a joy ride. They replace te gasoline they burned, and put the car back. No damage was done. The wear and tear on the car was minimal. (Like the royalty you didn't pay for one song.) Should that person's right to use your car while you are not using it be protected?
 
I said nothing about wether it was "right" or "wrong" to make copies, I stated that there is a major part missing in the reasoning and thats the part where I would have bought the product if I didnt copy it.
Even if I put a new movie on a public website for anyone who please to download the publishers of that movie DOES NOT lose money everytime someone download the movie.
They lose money only on some of the downloads, namely the ones made by people who would have otherwise seen it in the theatres or bought it and thinking thats "all downloaders" is just arrogant beyond belief.

Now once I SELL a pirated copy theres a good reason to believe that everyone who buys the pirated copy would have spent money on the authorized product.. If the price is right.

The whole unauthorized copying mess is a lot more neuanced than what RIAA, MPAA their buddies prefer to dream up where every single copy is not only one lost sale, but thousands..
 
Daniel1948 and Tigerman,
We're not talking about music, intelectual property, books, or poetry, we're talking about a piece of dive gear that has not been made for quite a few years and they are not sold new anymore. Even if I did decide to pop these things out by the hundreds it wouldn't effect AL one bit because they no longer make them therefore there is no way I'm cutting in on their action.
 
Daniel1948 and Tigerman,
We're not talking about music, intelectual property, books, or poetry, we're talking about a piece of dive gear that has not been made for quite a few years and they are not sold new anymore. Even if I did decide to pop these things out by the hundreds it wouldn't effect AL one bit because they no longer make them therefore there is no way I'm cutting in on their action.

Anybody that wants a "poor man's guide" to Patents and Trademarks and Trade Secrets should spend the $37.50 and buy this publication.

Patent It Yourself by David Pressman - Nolo

Tobin
 
Just wondering about an old US divers back pack design probably from 1964 ish?
It's one of those Kam "EZ" Paks made out of plastic with the stainless tank band with the cam lever.

Nice Job from your description. Should that not appease him shoot me a pm, I think I have about 30 laying in box here.
 
I would suspect that you could copy the original...leave the name off of it and make the slightest change in it some whrere and it would not be the item that was considered patented. It seams that the patent is pretty presise. make aluminum what was once steel and it is not the same thing. Just an opinion. And from something decades old for personal use. Cant be a problem.

Daniel1948 and Tigerman,
We're not talking about music, intelectual property, books, or poetry, we're talking about a piece of dive gear that has not been made for quite a few years and they are not sold new anymore. Even if I did decide to pop these things out by the hundreds it wouldn't effect AL one bit because they no longer make them therefore there is no way I'm cutting in on their action.
 
I would suspect that you could copy the original...leave the name off of it and make the slightest change in it some whrere and it would not be the item that was considered patented.

If this were actually true patents would have little value. This commonly held belief is usually wrong. Read the book I listed a couple posts up.

It seams that the patent is pretty presise. make aluminum what was once steel and it is not the same thing. Just an opinion. And from something decades old for personal use. Cant be a problem.

Patent holders have no offensive rights against individuals who choose to use the covered invention for their own use. Patent holders can pursue those who use the covered invention for profit.

If the patent has expired the invention is in the public domain.

Tobin
 
No, you only deprive anyone of anything if you would have bought it if you didnt download it! :no:
This is the major thing that i.e. record companies completely fail to understand. If I download a song it does NOT mean that I otherwise would have bought it, nor that they lost a million usd because I did, which they seem to think. At best they lost the ammount THAT ONE SONG is worth and at worst I wouldnt even have listened to it or their band at all..
You are mixing things up here; there is a big difference between patents and copyrights. A patent has a limited lifetime; a copyright does not. If that one song is copyrighted, you are violating that copyright by downloading it. The amount of worth is something else too...but the violation occurred by not paying for the copyrighted material. And it is a huge problem for intellectual copyrights.

John
 
You are mixing things up here; there is a big difference between patents and copyrights. A patent has a limited lifetime; a copyright does not. If that one song is copyrighted, you are violating that copyright by downloading it. The amount of worth is something else too...but the violation occurred by not paying for the copyrighted material. And it is a huge problem for intellectual copyrights.

John
They are different things, but their purpose is the same and the argument is for all intents and purposes the same. NOBODY lose ANYTHING if you copy either patented nor copyrighted items unless its either resold or the person doing it would have bought it in the first place.

EDIT: Clarification - Its NOT the argument as to why its RIGHT to copy stuff but the argument as to why the claim that "every copy is one (or multiple) lost sales" is wrong.

I would suspect that you could copy the original...leave the name off of it and make the slightest change in it some whrere and it would not be the item that was considered patented. It seams that the patent is pretty presise. make aluminum what was once steel and it is not the same thing. Just an opinion. And from something decades old for personal use. Cant be a problem.
Actually, Apple and certain judges in Europe seem to disagree very much with you on that. The fact that the Galaxy tab is "square with rounded corners, a visible frame and a flat and centered screen which shows colored icons when switched on" has allowed Apple to stop all sales of the Galaxy Tab in Germany for one..
I cant say I don't find it moronic..

On topic: Wether or not the patent (if there even was one) for the item in question here is still in effect I wouldnt know, but if the item is no longer obtainable, I doubt there would be any reprecussions from using the design regardless. Now if you wanted to sell it, someone might have legit claims for royalties..
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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