How great is the risk (in your perception)?

[The Chairman]

The greatest risk is the operator.

Indeed.

The dives are planned such that if the unit failed at the worst possible time there is enough bailout gas to surface.

This is not always the case.

If someone else knows of a book that covers linear drift, limiting, and the other common failure modes in CCR please let us know.

Why not write the definitive article and we'll post it on the home page??? That invitation is open for ALL aspects of rebreathering that anyone feels capable of writing. Contact me and let's make it happen, Captain.

I can say categorically that every CCR instructor I know, and every one I have trained put great emphasis on cell limitation and deviation. So I guess myself and all my associates are the 1%.

Of the three instructors I have had, only one discussed this. One.

My first instructor taught me that bailing out is almost always the safest move

My rebreathering motto: If in doubt, bail the ef out. Actually, that's my motto for all diving and living in general.

I was 'warned' about this thread. I'm not sure I get why. We're known for discussing the hard questions with little to no interference. Keep it friendly is all we ask. I like the information presented here and agree with much of it.

 

[tbone1004]

@Dan_P and @CAPTAIN SINBAD some of the recent UTD videos with AG explaining ratio deco goes out and says that altitude is not compensated for within the confines of RD. Recent as in within the last year. Now I don't know if that has changed, but it is relatively recent words from AG himself that altitude is not compensated for within RD

 

[KenGordon]

This is not always the case.

Go on then, tell us when it is safe not to have enough gas to bail out.

 

[The Chairman]

Go on then, tell us when it is safe not to have enough gas to bail out.

I meant that quite often CCR Pilots don't bring enough bail out.

 

[KenGordon]

I meant that quite often CCR Pilots don't bring enough bail out.

Training is there for a reason. Ignore it and your risk increases greatly. But that is a choice a given diver makes, like using old cells or not staying in practice. There is no need to be that diver. It is an avoidable risk.

A lot of diving is managing risk. With a rebreather there are more, and different, risks to manage, but people are successful at that.

Someone who jumps in ignoring the risk management techniques taught to them will be worse off than an OC diver, and maybe even than a similarly blasé OC diver.

 

[Dan_P]

@Dan_P and @CAPTAIN SINBAD some of the recent UTD videos with AG explaining ratio deco goes out and says that altitude is not compensated for within the confines of RD. Recent as in within the last year. Now I don't know if that has changed, but it is relatively recent words from AG himself that altitude is not compensated for within RD

Have you got a specific reference I can check out?

 

[PfcAJ]

Training is there for a reason. Ignore it and your risk increases greatly. But that is a choice a given diver makes, like using old cells or not staying in practice. There is no need to be that diver. It is an avoidable risk.

A lot of diving is managing risk. With a rebreather there are more, and different, risks to manage, but people are successful at that.

Someone who jumps in ignoring the risk management techniques taught to them will be worse off than an OC diver, and maybe even than a similarly blasé OC diver.

I wan in a conversation with a diver recently where their instructor was not diving with adequate bailout.

Training isn't enough if the agencies behind the training do not have clear standards and subsequently enforce those standards.

 

[The Chairman]

Training is there for a reason. Ignore it and your risk increases greatly.

You're preaching to the choir. Fact is, many a rebreather diver has enough to do the dive, but not enough if the dive goes way south. That's my point and I'm sticking to it. They justify their actions, even in caves, but that doesn't change the fact.

 

[tomfcrist]

I think a lot of people think they can get away with not enough bailout. Plenty see SCR mode as a way to triple the amount of bailout they actually have...even though it's more like double, and it leaves them up s*** creek without a paddle if they have a scrubber issue.

 

[KevinNM]

I meant that quite often CCR Pilots don't bring enough bail out.

And, as the fairly recent accident in EN showed, “enough” is a bit fuzzy when things go seriously bad.