How does this set-up sound?

[Fishpie]

The Titan 1st stage is a practically the same as a Conshelf which in turn is based on the Royal Aquamaster.
The LX 2nd stage is made by Apeks and is based on the Scubapro G250 which in turn is a successor to the Balanced Adjustable

 

[Slonda828]

The Titan 1st stage is a practically the same as a Conshelf which in turn is based on the Royal Aquamaster.
The LX 2nd stage is made by Apeks and is based on the Scubapro G250 which in turn is a successor to the Balanced Adjustable

Ed-zachary! I would go as far as to say that a conshelf pretty much IS a RAM. The only differences are in the second stage. The first stages are identical functionally.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Hi skimphish,

One other thought, along the lines of what Slonda told you in his first reply: Unless you really have your heart set on an adjustable 2nd, you may want to consider that your current Conshelf 2nd can be tuned to breath quite well (I know the 2nd you wanted to replace was not the Conshelf).

Many folks (me included) assume that an adjustable 2nd will be easier breathing than a non-adjustable 2nd. But this is not always true; assuming a well-designed 2nd, it is tuning that usually determines how well (or how badly) the 2nd stage performs, not an adjuster knob.

Adjustable 2nds can be tuned closer to the ragged-edge of freeflow than non-adjustable regs, but most techs probably will not tune a customer's 2nd stage quite that "hot" for fear that they will have to deal with an angry customer if the reg freeflows.

So the result is a more conservatively-tuned adjustable, and when you turn the adjustment knob to the easiest-breathing position, the adjustable reg breathes the same as the non-adjustable reg.... so the main advantage of the adjusable reg in this state of tune is that you can make it breath harder when needed than the non-adjustable reg, not easier.

Being able to make the reg breath harder is an advantage in some situations (prevent surface freeflows, swimming into strong current, low pressure seat beginning to wear out, etc.)

I have both balanced adjustable (Zeagle ZX) and classic downstream non-adjustable 2nd's (Mares). I use the adjustable Zeagle 2nd's on stage / pony bottles. I prefer how the classic downstream non-adjustables breath, and use them as my primary 2nd's. I rebuild my own regs, so I can control the tuning.

But that is personal preference, and probably the opposite of most folks.

Again, have fun with whatever you choose!

Best wishes.

 

[skimphish]

ok, so i keep on seeing ppl talk about "tuning" a reg, how do you go about doing this? im guessing its something i have to go to a shop for since i have never rebuilt a reg? any insight on this would be great! thank you!

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Hi again skimpish,

"Tuning" the second stage in simple terms is adjusting to breathe as easily as possible, but within reason: If you lower the "cracking pressure" (the inhalation force required to begin airflow in the 2nd stage) below a certain point, the 2nd becomes too sensitive, and will freeflow too easily.

For a non-adjustable, classic downstream 2nd, the adjustments are all internal:

1. Intermediate pressure (adjusted at 1st stage, and usually just set to "factory spec" and left alone).

2. 2nd stage demand lever height. Typically set as high as possible to allow full opening of the 2nd stage valve when you inhale. The 2nd stage diaphragm presses on the demand lever during inhalation, and the demand lever in turn opens the valve allowing air to flow.

3. The 2nd stage orifice "depth" is adjustable in some regs, and effects the seating pressure on the 2nd stage soft seat; but I believe that in the Conshelf 2nd it is a "fixed" depth and not adjustable (but I dont' know for sure)? Slonda and other Conshelf owners could answer this.

Anyway, these adjustments are performed by the tech when the reg is serviced. "Tuning" is a balancing act between the adjustments on most regs, because each adjustment will effect the others, so the tech often has to go go back and forth to get the reg tuned "just right".... and that is where the problem lies. If the tech is rushed, lazy, or just doesn't care enough, the reg will be tuned to a standard of "good enough", versus "as good as possible".

You can learn to do these adjustments yourself, but should not attempt it until you've learned how. With the adjustments for the 2nd stage "a little goes a long way", so you need to understand what you are doing before starting.

Best wishes.

 

[keyshunter]

The titan LX is not a copy of an Apeks reg. The titan LX is based on the royal aqua master double hose regulator that debuted in 1966. Many of the Apeks regulators are based on it, not the other way around. I can provide you schematics from 1966 if you are curious. Just a little FYI

I was talking about the pneumatically balanced SECOND stages. The Titan and Conshelf FIRST stages are indeed based on the RAM. I am not sure about the Zeagle, but the Titan LX, Legend, and Apeks (except for a couple in the XTX) SECOND stage internal parts are completely interchangeable. Because of the reversable air barrel, the Apeks XTX uses a few different parts in the second stage, but most of the parts will interchange with those in the Titan LX, and Legend seconds.

 

[Slonda828]

I was talking about the pneumatically balanced SECOND stages. The Titan and Conshelf FIRST stages are indeed based on the RAM. I am not sure about the Zeagle, but the Titan LX, Legend, and Apeks (except for a couple in the XTX) SECOND stage internal parts are completely interchangeable. Because of the reversable air barrel, the Apeks XTX uses a few different parts in the second stage, but most of the parts will interchange with those in the Titan LX, and Legend seconds.

I am sure you are right, but I do not even own an adjustable or balanced second stage so I wouldn't know about it. I pretty much use conshelfs or RAMs for most of my diving.

 

[tfsails]

ALL second stages are adjustable. USD has some old seconds that have fixed orifices. One adjusts them by adjusting the locknut on the end of the poppet. On non-user-adjustable seconds with adjustable orifices (crowns in USDspeak) you can adjust the orifice AND the poppet nut. On user-adjustable seconds, you're pretty much limited to adjusting the orifice only.

As far as lineage between USD DA Aquamasters and two-stage Conshelfs, Titans, etc. and Apeks regs goes, you can throw Zeagle in the mix because they're direct descendants of Apeks regs from 15 years ago. You can probably throw HOG in there, too; their regs look like copies of Zeagles, based on what I've seen from pictures. Until a month ago, I'd never heard of HOG regs. Where did they come from? Would it be a new brand? Is HOG short for "Hogarthian"? Inquiring minds want to know...

I swear I think regulators sit on shop shelves and interbreed at night when the shop is closed. There are many more similarities than differences between brands.

 

[Slonda828]

ALL second stages are adjustable. USD has some old seconds that have fixed orifices. One adjusts them by adjusting the locknut on the end of the poppet. On non-user-adjustable seconds with adjustable orifices (crowns in USDspeak) you can adjust the orifice AND the poppet nut. On user-adjustable seconds, you're pretty much limited to adjusting the orifice only.

I consider this semantics. All of my regs are made before 1978, and since I have to take off the cover and use a wrench and screwdriver to adjust cracking pressure, I do not consider them to be adjustable as far as the end user is concerned. Really, we are saying the same thing.

 

[keyshunter]

tfsails,
A man named Chris Richardson, who had been a rep for a major scuba equipment manufacturer decided to become an equipment "manufacturer". I wish him well, especially since he picked a rather challenging economic time for a new startup. I believe the company is called Edge/Hog (Highly Optimized Gear). If he keeps running sales like his Black Friday special, he will probably sell a lot of gear.

It seems that almost every company out there has borrowed heavily from Scubapro and Aqualung/Apeks designs for their regulators. Hence there are more similarities than differences between brands.