How do you choose your Advanced Open Water speciality

[Vicko]

I still think there is confusion. Let's suppose your AOW is Deep, Navigation (both required), PPB, Fish ID, and Naturalist (I chose these last 3 because those specialties only require 2 dives each). So after AOW (5 dives, one for each of the five topics) you still need 8 more dives -- and manuals -- to complete the five specialties. You think you ought to get those for free? That's like ordering and paying for a coke and then demanding a hamburger with it.

My point earlier is that PADI does not mandate course prices, that is up to each shop or instructor. The only way PADI is involved is the charges for course materials (like manuals) and cert cards.

There we go, now we get each other.
I find that system of aowd ridiculous and a scam, the students get nothing out of it except a certification card that costs more than the "old" aowd that included 5 full specializations.

 

[boulderjohn]

There we go, now we get each other.
I find that system of aowd ridiculous and a scam, the students get nothing out of it except a certification card that costs more than the "old" aowd that included 5 full specializations.

Tell me about the "old" aow class. I am not familiar with it.

 

[tursiops]

Tell me about the "old" aow class. I am not familiar with it.

There is no such PADI thing. He may be thinking of some other agency or cert name.

 

[boulderjohn]

There is no such PADI thing. He may be thinking of some other agency or cert name.

I know. I believe he is confused about this.

I am also confused about the whole point of it. He is talking about increased expenses as if all divers taking AOW will not only take all the specialty classes in addition to the AOW class, and many will take them before the AOW class. Taking 5 specialties, including navigation and deep diver, before taking the full AOW class, would have to be one of the rarest events in history.

As for taking all 5 of the specialties after the class, I would think that would also be rare. As I said repeatedly, if you don't feel you need the full specialty after doing the AOW dive, then you won't be required to take it. That makes it significantly cheaper than a course requiring that you take specialties you might neither need nor want.

As for me, I did not take any of the 5 specialties after getting the AOW certification. My training needs and my training budget went elsewhere. I now have a stack of cards two inches thick, but I do not have the 5 specialty certifications required for the Master Scuba Diver certification. That is because I had choices I could make, and I chose differently. I was not required to take classes I did not need or want.

As for the costs of doing specialties after the AOW, I know I as an independent instructor would discount a student taking a specialty that was already part of AOW, since I would be doing one less dive. As has been noted, all costs for classes are determined by the local dive shop or instructor.

 

[Beau Holden]

but I do not have the 5 specialty certifications required for the Master Scuba Diver certification

You beat me to it, regarding the Master Scuba Diver. I thought it was 5 specialties. I bought that for my ex-wife for her birthday.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Read ScubaBoard long enough, and you will encounter hundreds of posts ridiculing specialties for skills that people feel do not even need any instruction, let alone a multiple dive specialty class. Most of that ridicule is misplaced, because for some people that full specialty is both valuable and necessary.

I don't think anyone would protest against doing full specialties for:
1) navigation: a fundamental skill, and one that is best covered in depth.
2) deep: a good instructor will get into issues of gas density, narcosis, emergency management, etc
3) search & recovery.
4) nitrox
5) dry suit
Now I will agree that none of these courses are "necessary." Through trial and error, people can become proficient. Or possibly ingrain some poor habits. Even though I live in a place with year round diving with a very active community, it would take me years to get at the same level of a bare bones training program.

While there are no dive skills/dives required for nitrox, it is still a no brainer to take.

But for others it isn't. For some people, what they learn on a single dive in a course is all they really want or need. They won't know that, however, unless they give it a try. The original idea of the AOW class was to introduce different kinds of diving to people to see if any of those interested them. If they were interested, they could go on for more. If they were not interested, they could look elsewhere for areas of training they liked and needed.

I have difficulty with the premise that people would have everything figured out for nav, deep, s&r from just one dive. There is a dramatic difference between the first and last dives of these specialities in terms of requirements.

That still makes sense to me. Get an introduction and decide if you need or want more training. If you do, go on and finish the specialty. If not, look for some other area to spend both your money and your training time. If you sign up for the full specialty and decide after the first dive that you have had enough, then you will spend the rest of the class regretting that mistake.

I see things completely differently. I don't believe that the first dive of specialties that tend to be dramatically light compared to later ones are a good indicator. I've never heard of someone saying because they took AOW that they saw that they needed/wanted to take more courses. Or that they didn't. Knowing what I know now, I would have gone the alternate path to AOW, as I do get the requirement from many dive charters for it. Would seeing colors disappear as I dive deeper or seeing slightly different depth values on different dive computers/depth gauges tell me that I need to learn more about diving deep? Or doing a square pattern/out-and-back tell me that I need to do a course to challenge my navigational skills?

@MaverickDiver94,

This really comes down to your goals. You say you want to become a good/safe diver, hence my recommendation for full courses. Focus on courses where you obtain skills. Talk to to potential instructors on how their course will contribute to that goal. Get into the details of the skills learn and very important, what the pass criteria is for each skill.

Finally, order @Jim Lapenta 's book: SCUBA: A Practical Guide to Advanced Level Training, Vol. 2 (sorry for not posting a link, but SB now messes those up). It will guide you with information that will assist you in finding the right instructor for you.

I am genuinely sorry that you did not achieve the confidence and skillset to become an autonomous diver. That is actually a WRSTC guideline that your instructor failed to meet with you. The fact that you are aware of this and wish to address it in further training says a lot about you and I am quite confident you will reach your desired skill level in short order.

Good luck!

 

[tursiops]

Taking 5 specialties, including navigation and deep diver, before taking the full AOW class, would have to be one of the rarest events in history.

Not to mention against standards....since you can't take Deep before AOW (or Adventure Diver).

 

[Cthippo]

AOW is a weird beast. The only thing the certification really gets you is the theoretical ability to go to 90 feet, but it wanders through a bunch of disconnected training to get there. The dive operators, who we have largely deputized as the SCUBA police seem to have accepted it as the de facto indicator of skill, but really they have no idea what skills you go in the course, or even if it was a course.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Not to mention against standards....since you can't take Deep before AOW (or Adventure Diver).

Do 3 specialties before Deep and you qualify as adventure diver.

 

[tursiops]

they have no idea what skills you go in the course, or even if it was a course.

Sure, maybe they just gave the card away? Seriously?
And they DO know you got some training in at least Navigation and Deep.
Do you really only have 0-24 dives?