How do I find a liveaboard that will let me dive MY way?

[drbill]

Just back from 2 1/2 weeks in the Dutch Antilles. While on Bonaire I dove with Bruce Bowker's Carib Inn operation. It's not a liveaboard, but I did my research prior to arriving and they let you do your own diving. After 52 years of diving solo, I wasn't about to follow a guide (although they can be quite helpful in spotting critters). They had no problem letting me do that. Although I often prefer a dive buddy when diving unfamiliar waters, I greatly appreciated their willingness to let me go my own way so I could film what I wanted and for as long as I wanted. Blackbeards in the Bahamas was pretty good about that (with a solo cert) as was Club Ocellaris in the Philippines (Anilao).

Other than Blackbeard, I haven't dived a liveaboard in some time so I can't offer pointers in that direction. However, I strongly advise e-mailing the contact people and asking the questions you want answered. If they won't answer them, keep searching.

 

[medtechdvr]

Just want to add to the recommendation for DAMAI and for SIREN fleet. I personally prefer DAMAI, they allow you to dive up to air allowance (almost every dive was 120 minutes during my last trip) - if you find something cool they'll deliver a tank and drop you right back down. They strongly believe in the philosophy that you are responsible for your safety, with the cavet that you don't do anything stupid. Their guides are actually local & usually have been diving in the area for decades. If you don't want to follow the guides - that's up to you, but unless you have a certification for solo diving, take a buddy, which is reasonable.

 

[mathauck0814]

I'll throw another +1 for the Nautilus Explorer out of Cabo. We had 22 people on board, all of whom were very respectable divers (I think there's something about "cold" water diving liveaboards that sifts the newbies out of the equation better than the tropical ones). They have divemasters for those who want them but leave you be. Wife and I did a 7 day Sea of Cortez trip with them last year and had a great time. Boat moves periodically, but we did several 90+ minute dives to whatever depth we chose (had to keep a floor at about 200 feet on account of runtimes in most places). They serve absolutely A+ food, have incredible service, will support rebreathers, allowed me to dive solo when the wife wanted to tan on the deck and handle all of the logistics you. Very top notch operation that we will be using again.

 

[MB NZ]

I'm just back from a second trip on Spoilsport on the Great Barrier Reef. They allow solo diving, although solo certification and a redundant gas source are required (quite sensible IMO) and they like you to be quite specific about dive time, again sensible. I was generally doing 60 - 80 minute dives and choosing my depth, although I saw no need to dive deeper than 30 metres on this trip.

After the liveaboard, I did a road trip and found myself in proximity to the SS Yongala, one of the best wreck dives in the world. Enquiries with day boat operators revealed that they ran follow-the-leader style diving and that solo diving was definitely out. I decided to keep my $$$ and go back to the Yongala one day on a liveaboard.

 

[chavala]

This thread so sums up how I feel about my fear of liveaboards!
My husband and I are very experienced divers, and I've found that once we do our check-out dive, we are generally left alone to do our own thing. But we always, always talk to the divemaster at the beginning of the trip to let him know this is how we want to dive.
The only time we've ever been made to follow a group was 1.) in The Cocos on the Undersea Hunter -- which was totally understandable since the currents were raging and everything was a drift dive. (Excellent trip by the way!)
And 2.) on the Ocean Hunter 1 in Palau. This trip to Palau put us off diving liveaboards for a few years because it was just so awful! It only has 3 cabins with 6 divers max, and we chose it because of this advert, (which is still on their site): "Unlimited diving and unlimited bottom time are the two main doctrines that make the Ocean Hunter so unique. We promise that you can dive whenever you want- some guests have done as many as seven dives per day while others stick to two. There is great flexibility aboard Ocean Hunter because of the small number of people, so you can create dive profiles that suit your personal needs."
This is complete BULL****!
At the time, the second least experienced diver on the boat was me, with 500 dives. Everyone else was tech divers with close to or over 1000 dives. The LEAST experienced diver on the boat by far was our divemaster! We were NEVER allowed to dive deep, dive more than 60 minutes, or do more than 3-4 dives a day. They made us follow in a close group like little children, and I wasn't even allowed to stop and take photos. They weren't planning on taking us to Peleliu because "the currents are very strong there and its way too dangerous". WTF? If not sail south then why am I in this tiny cabin on a boat and not just staying a a lux resort doing day trips? We all put our foot down and made them go. When we arrived the Aggressor and another huge boat were already there, and we constantly dove right next to their groups. It was a nightmare!
Phew! -- I have been holding it in for years : )

But the thing that gets me is what another poster said about how boats will take you to the sites which fit the "Lowest common denominator". This is a phrase my husband and I use all the time.

We had an excellent experience on the Philippines Siren, and could do whatever we wanted (including some fabulous 4 AM dawn dives).
My favorite of all was The Fiji Nia'a -- where I was actually allowed to solo dive.

The Seahorse in Raja Ampat: 3 families with 12 year olds! One bratty Italian kid whipping coral with his dive stick to make the fish come out. The TV constantly blasting cartoons and the sound of Angry Birds playing from their phones during every meal. We couldn't do any current dives (In Raja AMPAT!!!) because they were all new divers.

The Maldives Aggressor: A bunch of wanky Americans with too much money to travel and not enough experience. I am American -- so I am allowed to trash them if I want ; )
As one of them put it, "We want to dive in bathwater, and we don't want to see too many scary sharks".
So that's what we did.

The White Manta in the Similan Islands. Way too many people on that boat and half of them with little or no experience. We almost missed Richelieu Rock, which is the highpoint of the trip, because of them.
The other half of the guests were experienced Japanese divers, but with not much English, so had no idea what was going on. My husband and I spoke with them and got them riled up enough to start a rebellion so we could go (the others were made to sit out a few dives, rightfully so).

Since these horrible trips we stuck to doing resorts for a time. But with the exception of Lembeh Resort and El Galleon in Puerto Galera, we have not been impressed. The biggest letdown of all was Wakatobi, but that is another story for another thread.

So next month we are booked on the Solomon Islands' Bilikiki, and next year back on the Nai'a.
Who else will be on these boats? I don't even care if they're totally obnoxious anymore, as long as they're experienced divers! I'm already afraid. Very afraid.

Sorry this is so long but I needed a good venting

 

[cetacean]

Chavala

I would usually leave a post like yours alone, but part of it hit a little close to home (you'll see why below), so here's my response.

1. If you choose a (non chartered) live aboard trip, then your expectations should be that you're likely going to meet a wide range of divers with a varying range of experience (almost regardless of location). It you are that concerned about your diving opportunities being limited by others' experience levels, then join a charter where you have the opportunity to get to know the other divers before the trip, or charter a boat yourself (and invite along some friends you like diving with).

2. Re: The MSY Seahorse: they are fairly "family friendly" - but they are also one of the hardest working crews in Indonesia. Having been on the boat for a couple of trips (w/out our kids), I've never experienced what you described (and with two dive tenders, they were able to split groups by experience levels pretty well). In addition, I have seen them deal fairly effectively with divers with varying skill levels (on the occasions where we dove on sites in RA with strong currents they did take a smaller group "inside" to dive less demanding sites). The challenge in these situations isn't the logistics, it's managing divers that overestimate their own skills. I've seen them go way (way) [way] out of their way to insure that divers got great experiences diving RA with them.

3. Diving with 12 year olds on the boat: Let me preface this by saying how you spend your hard earned $ is totally up to you, however, getting the next generation of divers interested in diving ensures that we all get to continue to have access to the world greatest underwater locations at an economically viable levels. Dive resorts and dive boats need a continuous supply of divers to stay in business. We all feel this paradox - as you go get more experienced you seek out those one-of-a-kind locations and experiences, and hope the newbies go elsewhere - yet they are as important (if not more important) than you are (economically) in keeping these locations available to all of us.

So here's where it gets personal: my daughter is 12 - she completed her OW certification in Fiji in April; she and I spent a week together on the Kona Aggressor in August, and our family just returned (yesterday) from Raja Ampat (and Cenderawasih Bay). My wife and I had a plan to get her as much solid diving experience in her first year as reasonably possible (we will repeat this again in 2 years when our son is old enough to get certified). My daughter is a (much) better diver because of what she has learned from her fellow divers in both Kona and RA, the open generosity (in both knowledge and help) they've provided her, and the in-water experience she's gained in this first year. Her love for diving has grown (in a big part) because of the support she's felt from those divers she's met this year.

You may not like having young divers around you, but for better or worse, the sport is dependent on them.

4. Aggressors: I've been on a number of the Aggressor & Dancer boats - given how the boats are marketed, and the types of divers they tend to attract, I'm a little surprised your experience didn't match your expectations. I have not been on the Maldives Aggressor (there are many other boat choices in the Maldives) but the site does say they dive from separate dhonies, so seems like there would have been an opportunity to separate into more experienced/less experienced groups - something I've seen done on many of the aggressor boats that have multiple tenders.

5. Re: Wakatobi - although their diving practices are fairly regimented, I've never felt (after several trips) that we were being restricted in some way that prevented us from doing what we wanted to do. We've only ever had 4 divers in our groups, and they specifically match people up by experience (after the check out dive). If you felt constrained - they also offer private guides (which we took advantage of on one of our trips) - this lets you pick any site that any of the boats are diving (you can dive the same site multiple times in a day if that's what you want to do). I've sat in one spot trying to shoot 7 lionfish group feeding for 50 minutes - no issues w/the guide at all. They do limit bottom time on the boats (so they can get all the dives in), but if that's an issue, dive the wall out front - no limits there.

Your experiences are your own, and nothing I write here is likely going to change your opinion - but my experiences have been different.

The Bilikiki is a great boat. If you go with the right attitude you should have a great time...

 

[Shasta_man]

Hmmm... I prefer liveaboards for several reasons but one is that I found it more likely to have more experienced divers when they have to stay on the boat for many days, than at resort diving places. While I have had generally good luck, it is certainly no guarantee of having competent fellow divers (though they all think they are). Apparently that isn't always the case. It is amazing how much money some people have. My trip on the Bilikiki had an interesting mix including the wife who never went diving but swam around the boat every day while we went diving. A tip for you is to not touch the railing that leads down to the cabins. I think that is how I caught another passengers illness, missing the last day of diving. (I was lucky, I don't think they ever got to dive at all)

 

[nudisusie]

I'm already afraid. Very afraid.

Sounds like some pretty bad experiences there for you Chavala! I think you've had a run of bad luck and wouldn't say that your liveaboard experiences have been the norm - so don't be afraid. Relax and enjoy the trips ahead.

Perhaps when booking a trip - ask if there are any juniors (under 16s) on board and state you do not wish to dive with youngsters. I know Siren Fleet will inform you if there is a junior on board and if you;re already booked will ask if its ok. You then have the choice to say no, perhaps other do the same if you ask?

You could ask the experience level of the other guests but companies don't often have all the information on other guests when you book or would be unwilling to share it with you for privacy reasons.

That said in my opinion dive guides, especially on liveaboards, should not go for "lowest common denominator dives". If a diver on board lacks the experience or certification to make a specific dive offered on the itinerary then they should politely be advised by the cruise manager to sit it out. I worked on liveaboards for several years and never felt it was an issue to tell someone a dive was beyond their level. Rosalie Moller in the Red Sea is a good example - the dive starts at 30m and we never skipped it due to having inexperienced or open water level divers aboard - which in some cases was more than half the boat.

Cetacean offers some good advice - in that you may be better off booking as part of a group where you get to know the other guests prior to travel. Many dive centres & clubs offer group travel. If you have a local centre why not propose a trip destination to them and help them organise it?

I've heard very good things about Bilikiki I'm sure you'll have a fab time and look forward to your update.

 

[chavala]

Cetacean, I definitely feel the need to clear a few things up....

1: I have been on one chartered boat (The Philippine Siren), and it was fantastic. I agree 100% with you that is the way to go. Unfortunately my husband's vacation schedule does not always (really hardly ever) mesh with some of the trips I've seen. I saw some suggestions in this thread which has me a bit more optimistic, and I do plan to follow up on them. I've checked with my local dive club and believe me there is nothing worthwhile. I'm sure it would be different if I lived in California!
Re Chartering a boat -- I tried that. After years of discussing it with my husband I began to organize a trip with The Shakti in Raja Ampat (I have been on twice before -- wonderful ownere, wonderful crew), but it would mean putting up the (substantial) down payment myself and trying to get the money out of my "friends". Let's just say I gave up on that idea.
I did put group of 14 of us together for Puerta Galera last month and it was a huge success. But that was easy as I just sent out invites and told them if they want to come to book with the hotel directly.

2 and 3: I'm sure your daughter is a lovely girl and while I don't enjoy spending my time with children, yes, I get it.
As usual, the problem is not with the kids, but with their parents. I spent 10 days on The Seahorse with two obnoxious 12 year old boys. (The third child, a girl, was much better). One boy was from Australia and the other from Italy who was travelling with his divorced Dad and his gay lover, who completely ignored this kid the entire time. These kids hated each other so the families REFUSED to share a dhoni, so we were stuck. Remember how they make you sign a waiver at the beginning saying if you harass the sea life you will be warned and then penalized by sitting out dives? There was no enforcement of this at all. The Italian Brat was literally hitting fish with his stick. No amount of complaining to CC (the cruise director) by the rest of us did a thing.
Sure, the crew was hardworking and the food was good and it was a nice boat...
Not sure what that has to do with the subject at hand however.

We were never allowed to watch documentaries or even think about watching anything "adult" on the TV. It was constantly blasting with "Avatar" over and over (until someone ripped the plug out near the end, I think it was CC). Cell phones and video games were constantly blinging during every meal.
The entire boat refused to dive any currents so we didn't go to any. It was my 4th trip to Raja and my husband's first. I was so excited for him to finally dive there and it just sucked.

4. The only reason we went to the Maldives with Aggressor is because the boat we were booked on (The Oriental Siren's first trip from Timor Leste) SUNK a week before our departure! (How's that for luck?)
Since we had non-ref tickets to Singapore this was our only available option. With hindsight we should have just stayed at one of the resorts, but thought a liveaboard would be the way to go, even if it was our last choice of boats.
Again, no currents and no sharks because all the newbie Americans wanted to do was swim in bathwater and say they've BEEN to The Maldives.
No, I will never go on The Aggressor again.

5. I did my first Wakatobi trip 5 years ago and it was on the top of my list for years -- my favorite place in the world that nowhere could ever compare.
I think Ana + Miguel (who now run Lembeh resort) had a lot to do with that.
My last trip's letdown had nothing to do with the diving. That place has changed drastically with the new management, and now is geared towards well-moneyed families with diving seeming to take second place. They even have a new Kid's club. When I was last there it was July Australian school holidays, and there were ELEVEN children under the age of 10 staying there. Not divers -- juts little kids running and screaming through the dining room. At least being a resort we were able to escape them by eating dinner very late after night dives and pretty much staying underwater the entire time. If you google some reviews you'll see lots of others seem to think the same.

Anyway, before you remark on my "attitude", please know I've been diving and travelling for over 20 years and aside from these mentioned trips, the rest of my experiences have been mostly great. I've made tons of friends and even met my husband diving. Our latest M.O. has been to go to resorts as remote as possible with unlimited diving, no pool or TV -- pretty much all there is to do is dive. Alor Divers Resort was last summer and that was perfect. But I miss the liveaboard experience of 5 dives a day, waking up and rolling into the water.

I felt the need to respond to this thread, because as I've said, it's hit home with me.
I have no probelm with newbies. Hell, I was one once (and a kid too!). But when "they" go to places like Raja Ampat, Galapagos, Maldives...they should know what they're getting into and not ruin the trip for the rest of us. I remember well being nervous about certain dives and I sat those dives out. I didn't demand we go to another site.

To Nudisusie's Comment: "...in my opinion dive guides, especially on liveaboards, should not go for "lowest common denominator dives". If a diver on board lacks the experience or certification to make a specific dive offered on the itinerary then they should politely be advised by the cruise manager to sit it out."

Girl, You got that right! If only!

I'm sure we'll have a great time on The Bilikiki. It sounds like my kind of boat. -- thanks for your well wishes!

 

[clarebethan]

As another poster said, charter the whole thing! I know one very luxury liveaboard in Komodo which was built for just two guests. It's very big at 101 foot, so you get all that space, plus a divemaster who will give you help when you need it and leave you alone when you don't. The journey is customised to ensure, you the guest, are happy. I know the dive master (actually instructor with 10 years professional experience) personally, and i've had the pleasure to be a guest on this boat - ALEXA | Indonesia Yacht Charter | Exclusive Luxury