How different are tec courses agency to agency

[rjack321]

The problem is in the scale of size of PADI - they are so large that it is very difficult to keep a tight quality control system in place.

GUE has excellent quality control because they are small enough to make refresher renewals part of the SOP. As a result bad instructors weed out or are corrected far quicker.

But the science, development and materials PADI puts out now are tremendous.

GUE requires every student to complete their QA form before issuing a card. On it are various course components important to the agency management. Did the instructor do X? did he avoid Y? Instructors violating standards are caught fast, like within one or 2 bad classes.

No other agency at any level does this kind of course-by-course review of their instructors through any kind of student follow-up (at all). None of my PADI, SSI, TDI or UTD classes had any such QA review at all. I have not personally taken an IANTD, NSS-CDS or NACD course. Some of these other agencies are comparable in size to GUE; they are just uninterested or unmotivated to be rigorous, their purpose in many cases is to support instructor's businesses and issue cards. Rocking the boat, remedial teaching lessons for poor instructors, or kicking instructors out isn't part of their business model.

 

[Omisson]

Of those orgs Only the NSSCDS and NACD are remotely close in size to GUE so an apple to apple comparison is difficult. Since they are cave diving orgs that just do cave training it's hard to really compare.

I know PADI does open water Quality control e-surveys but have not seen other agencies do similar things - though I have NSS, NACD, IANTD, SDI and TDI certs.

 

[Hawkwood]

.... Rocking the boat, remedial teaching lessons for poor instructors, or kicking instructors out isn't part of their business model.

Really? Here are the 1st Quarter Stats from PADI.

Members Expelled ..................................................... 9
Members Suspended ................................................. 3
Members Terminated .................................................7

BREAKDOWN BY TYPE OF RETRAINING/ REORIENTATION REQUIRED
IDC/IE .................................................................. 0
OWSI/IE ................................................................ 0
IDC or OWSI .......................................................... 0
Status Update ........................................................ 8
Members Placed in Review Status ............................. 8
Standard Compliance Agreement ...........................149
Members Requiring Counseling ..............................253
Closed With no Further Action ...............................360
TOTAL ................................................................797

 

[Redshift]

I had a questionnaire after my TDI Full Cave. Came with the card.

 

[rjack321]

I had a questionnaire after my TDI Full Cave. Came with the card.

I got nothing from TDI except my card and a frame-able certificate after my CCR MOD1

Really? Here are the 1st Quarter Stats from PADI.

Members Expelled ..................................................... 9
Members Suspended ................................................. 3
Members Terminated .................................................7

BREAKDOWN BY TYPE OF RETRAINING/ REORIENTATION REQUIRED
IDC/IE .................................................................. 0
OWSI/IE ................................................................ 0
IDC or OWSI .......................................................... 0
Status Update ........................................................ 8
Members Placed in Review Status ............................. 8
Standard Compliance Agreement ...........................149
Members Requiring Counseling ..............................253
Closed With no Further Action ...............................360
TOTAL ................................................................797

800 instructors on report or expelled... So those are the ones who killed or maimed someone or PADI is being forced to defend in court or is litigant in a suit or had a student take the initiative to complain about. Have you ever been asked by PADI to provide a review of an instructor from a class? I have 6 different PADI cards and they have never asked for my feedback about even one of them. Several of those courses were crappy. It wasn't worth my while to complain.

GUE asks every student after every class. No QA form, no card.

 

[KenGordon]

A favourite proxy for direct agency bashing is now to criticise the lack of instructor QA. Oh well....

Back to the original question. I did both TDI and BSAC entry level trimix courses. The BSAC one included rescue stuff that the TDI one did not. The TDI course was more 'team' orientated. The TDI equivalent CCR course did include rescue skills. Maybe this follows as CCR rescue is more different than rescue on a twinset. On the other hand divers could qualify for AN/DP etc with just PADI AOW so might not have done much in the way of rescue skills.

 

[boulderjohn]

According to the PADI regional meeting I attended last year, the degree to which students are investigated depends upon the level of experience of the instructor. If an instructor is very experienced and has had a lot of students and a lot of reviews, those students are not heavily queried. With newer instructors, most of the students are queried. They do a lot more these days than they used to do.

A friend of mine was in that number investigated a number of years ago. I mentioned it earlier. He was investigated because a student incorrectly reported that when they did the CESA, they did not use an ascent line. PADI was satisfied that the student was mistaken after their investigation, in prt becaue the rest of the class reported using an ascent line.

I have technical diving certifications from UTD, TDI, NSS-CDS, and PSAI. I have never received an evaluation survey from any of them.

 

[Nasser]

I have received questionnaires from both PADI and TDI after completion of courses.

 

[kensuf]

I believe some of my former students have received Q/A forms from TDI, and I believe their answers helped me earn this:

 

[TSandM]

I've never gotten a QA survey from any of the agencies I have cards with -- PADI, NAUI, TDI, UTD, GUE, NACD. GUE doesn't send them out; they just tell you you can't get your card until you go to their website and do one. The nice thing about that is that it removes the inherent bias in voluntary surveys -- only the people who are very happy and the majority of those who were unhappy will fill them out. Ask me how I know this -- they're basing some of my pay on "patient satisfaction" surveys now.