How Deep Can You Do An "Out Of Air Emergency Ascent" From?

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Tom,

An empty cylinder (i.e. inside pressure = ambient pressure) at 100 fsw will be 3 bar higher than ambient at the surface. Considering you'll breathe about 0.353 bar per breath at the surface (2265L / 4L tidal volume), that 44.1 psi will provide you with something like 8 lungfuls of air, at the surface. If you care, you can perform the integral and determine how many lungfuls you'll have with breaths at arbitrary depths. So, certainly, your scuba rig might give you some additional lungfuls as you ascend.

However, let us not forget that the reason a diver runs dry on the bottom is (hopefully) an equipment failure. The air remaining in the tank would not be usable, because it would escape through the same failure as the diver ascends.

jbd,

How could you have "excessive" positive buoyancy when your goal in life at the moment is to surface as quickly as possible? I assume you're speaking from the perspective that the chance of injury increases with increasing ascent rate. This is perhaps true, but only of marginal concern -- you can survive the bends, or even a minor lung overexpansion, but you cannot survive drowning. If you decide to make a buoyant ascent to the surface, make that decision once, and follow through with it. Forget about controlling your ascent rate, because you're way past that concern. Leave the air in the BC, and don't mess with it -- ascend as quickly as possible. The last thing you'd like to happen is to accidentally vent too much air and find yourself sinking. Don't forget to exhale.

Hawk,

SpareAirs are useless. Do the math. SpareAirs are designed to allow helicopter pilots to ascend from 20 fsw from a scuttled helicopter. They're useless beyond 20 fsw, and only serve to foster a false sense of security for mathematically-impaired divers.

- Warren
 
Warren, how can 3 cu. ft of air to help you be able to ascend easier and safer be useless? I am not talking about a normal ascent with the normal safety stop. All I said was to try to slow the ascent some and get a few breaths on the way up. Isn't this an easier way to do it? Would it be better to do it with no air at all? I agree that it is an expensive piece of equipment for that few breaths, but I feel that some air to help you in an emergency is better than none at all. I think the math says it all, some is better than none. Try it sometime doing the drill with none, and then try it with your reg in your mouth and "cheat" and then tell me if they are the same.

Since emotions cannot be portrayed in writing well, I had to tell you that I respect your opinion and no harmfull intent is given here. This is just a thought provoking conversation I was starting. The whole thread was not geared for promoting the Spare Air either, Just one that would be interesting for the answers that came up.





Later, Hawk.
 
Warren, I have read both of these threads in the past, they have good points.

If you read the replies in this thread before I mentioned this product, most agreed that the ascent could be made with no air from 100 ft. If it can be done with 0 air available, wouldn't it be easier with some?

I am definately not a world class explorer, as most people here are not and never will be. I can understand why they do not. I am not talking about this type of diving.

If I were dying of thirst and someone offered me a couple of sips of water to "maybe" have enough to get to another source of water even though this was not enough to solve my dehydration problem, I would sure take them. Some is better than none, reguardless of the situation.



Later, Hawk.
 
I'll just point out that if all else fails and it will take more then 60-90 seconds to reach air, it is possible to breathe from an inflated BC for several minutes. You need to be sure not inhale any water in the hose/inflator.

You may wind up with a respiratory infection as a result, but that beats the alternative of drowning.

Ralph
 
Originally posted by Hawk
Just how deep is it possible to do this from and be ok when you surface?
From the deepest depth we have planned and that would include the OOA happening at the very end of the planned BT so we could do the OOA including meeting all deco obligations.
 
Pug,

This is newbie diving -- single tank, no buddy competency. They're asking "from what depth can a solo diver ascend if she has absolutely no air available anywhere."

- Warren
 
rcohn,

Don't waste your time rebreathing your BC -- it's a very bad idea. If you have an OOA, spend those precious seconds ditching your weights and swimming hard, not fumbling with your inflator button.

I believe you're confusing the technique of BC breathing with BC rebreathing. You're welcome to inhale from the BC's inflator, if, say, both of your regs fail (yeah, right), given that you then exhale to the water. The gas inside your BC is only enough for (at most) two adequately oxygenated breaths, and doesn't provide any real help in an OOA. You're also setting yourself up for a lung overexpansion injury or AGE because you won't realize when your BC is full during your rapid ascent. The overpressure relief valve on the BC has a cracking pressure far beyond what your lungs can handle.

Never rebreathe your BC.

We've all agreed that one can do a zero-air lungs-empty buoyant ascent from any recreational depth. That will suffice -- do not use a SpareAir, and do not rebreathe your BC.

For those of you who choose to exceed recreational limits, I expect that you understand a zero-air situation means death, and you and your buddy plan (and execute) your dives accordingly.

- Warren
 
Originally posted by VTWarrenG
Pug,

This is newbie diving -- single tank, no buddy competency. They're asking "from what depth can a solo diver ascend if she has absolutely no air available anywhere."

- Warren

Oh...Hmmm...
You're right...
 
OK, its at least 106 feet.

Thats where I was, while positioning a 300lb buoy anchor at 115'. Used a full 80 to slow the descent, and like a dummy, didnt check my air until, I had emptied and folded the two lift bags.
I looked at my gauge, and it read 0 at a 115 feet I started up slope (45% or better) and sucked aluminum at 106. Really was not worried, but cant explain why. (Did have over 200 dives in at that point) I did a standard PADI ESA and watched my computer to try and not exceed the ascent rate. zzzzzzzzzzzed my way to about 40' and rememebered from training that the air in the tank was "supposed" to expand enough to possibly get a breath. I tried it, and got a nice - over 1/2 breath - but didnt really feel the need for it.
Trust me, the air in your lungs does expand as you go up, and doing the drill with keeping your airway open WORKS - just dont over do the exhale.. I was fine, but I was only at 115 for about 2 minutes. (Total descent and work at depth 6 minutes - I have never been through a tank so fast!)
It shook me up a little bit, and - safe or not, I had a shore watcher drag me another tank, and went back to 15' for 10 minutes - to relax.
Scary - yes! Would I do it again? not on purpose!
Do I think it is possible? Yes, - just dont do it.
Just goes to prove - follow the PADI and other dive agency guidlines!

Dave

Man, can I make up a story!

:mean:
 

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