How can GUE/UTD work with so few instructors?

[MXGratefulDiver]

I flew to florida for my technical training (not GUE/UTD), the instructor I wanted to learn from lived there so I went...I think its pretty rare (unless you live in a "hot spot") to get local training...

ymmv

That's the same reason I'm flying to Florida in 18 days for cave training ... that, and because we don't have caves where I live ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

Of course, I'm in no rush to do this. Right now I'm going to continue with PADI: get Rescue Diver sooner rather than later and get some of the specialties that interest me (plus just going out and diving away from courses is critical). After that I'd like to get into GUE/UTD rec courses (although they're things most other agencies probably consider semi-technical: doubles, mixes with helium, etc.), and after slowly progressing, maybe start true technical diving.

It's not that I'm particularly interested in minimalist diving (although maybe once you go technical, or particularly caves, that becomes more critical). But the focus on bouyancy, trim, different kicks, and some good skills like primary donation seem like good skills for minimalist and "christmas tree" divers alike, and it really sounds like the courses truly make you a better diver. Unfortunately, even this early in my diving career, I'm starting to see some major deficiencies with PADI for anything more than a vacation diver. I probably won't ever be a "religious" DIR diver, just because in general I like self sufficiency and redundancy a bit too much, but I still think these organizations have a lot to teach me.

PADI teaches recreational diving, and it does not pretend to do otherwise. It is affiliated with DSAT, which is a technical diving agency that is, frankly, not really well done at this point. If you are done with the PADI recreational program and want to go on, you are best off either deciding to go Pro for recreational diving, choosing a different agency for technical training, or doing both.

 

[drbill]

The small number of instructors also helps ensure that their rigorous standards are adhered to.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

Oh I know you are already here and planning to take UTD (with ligersandtions?)

I meant if the OP decided since he's up north.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm not looking to take it right now for a couple reasons. Mainly that I'd like to get more than the dives I have and practice some of the skills more on my own or in simpler rec courses; as well as the equipment: it will cost me a little bit of money to get a backplate + harness, paddle fins, new hose on my reg, etc. (UTD seems a bit less strict than GUE in this respect).

Also, fundamentals/essentials are the two courses that I probably can find relatively easily in Seattle, plus I don't own a car yet, I'm not even in a permanent location (actually in Ontario now) and the whole not passing first try thing, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to drive down to SoCal to do it.

Once I get out of University, things should be easier. Hopefully I can get out to Seattle permanently (still no guarantee of this), own a car, and have some money to upgrade my gear, plus have more experience.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

PADI teaches recreational diving, and it does not pretend to do otherwise. It is affiliated with DSAT, which is a technical diving agency that is, frankly, not really well done at this point. If you are done with the PADI recreational program and want to go on, you are best off either deciding to go Pro for recreational diving, choosing a different agency for technical training, or doing both.

Ya, I've still got quite a bit I want to do recreationally, including Rescue Diver and a few specialties, I'm in no rush to move on.

Once I do, I definitely don't think DSAT would be my first choice, while it's probably okay with a good instructor, it looks to me like a PADI money-grab (I'm starting to become a wee-bit cynical with them). I'd rather go with an agency with a long history in tech (TDI?) or one specifically designed around building good technical skills (GUE/UTD). I also kind of like the way GUE and UTD have these programs that they call "recreational" but really seem to be a bridge between rec and tech. Because say after 100 dives I may have figured that I've done all the PADI stuff I want to do, but feel I need another 100 dives before I go onto true technical (and want to take some courses in the meantime), these courses could fill that void quite nicely.

As for going pro, I'd consider this with PADI eventually, but probably wouldn't want to for a long time just because if you're being entrusted to keep others safe and teach them, I want to be a damn good diver first. I think I'd want to reach at least the 200 dive point, possibly even have some technical training under my belt before I started helping others (plus if I'm in the US, I'd probably have visa restrictions that would prevent me from making any money: although I may take a DiveMaster's course for the experience anyways.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

The small number of instructors also helps ensure that their rigorous standards are adhered to.

Fair enough, it definitely makes it easier when all the instructors report to one or two guys. However, if a firm structure is put in place with the proper over-sight, larger numbers could be just as successful. There are new problems as the numbers grow, but I do believe with proper management and culture, this could be accomplished without sacrificing standards.

I think this will be a bigger challenge going forward because GUE and UTF really seem to be picking up steam for people interested in more advanced diving or those who truly want to perfect their skills . Can they grow without falling into the same holes the larger agencies fell into?

 

[TSandM]

Coldwater Canuck, if you are in Seattle and want to go diving and talk about training agencies and classes, I'd be happy to meet up with you. I've trained with GUE and UTD and TDI, and my husband has done tech training under NAUI, and we can talk about the differences and what might work best for you with what you want to do. Feel free to PM me.

 

[Peter Guy]

I'm quite sure that PADI would recognize a UTD OW card for AOW or on:

have a qualifying certification from another training organization. (This is defined as proof of an entry level scuba certification with a minimum of four open water training dives.)

I have used my GUE Fundies card to use Nitrox on a boat -- when it wouldn't take my NAUI Helitrox card as showing I was qualified to use Nitrox! (This was a boat from a PADI shop which shall remain unidentified to protect the guilty!)

 

[Anti-Hero]

I'm quite sure that PADI would recognize a UTD OW card for AOW or on:

I have used my GUE Fundies card to use Nitrox on a boat -- when it wouldn't take my NAUI Helitrox card as showing I was qualified to use Nitrox! (This was a boat from a PADI shop which shall remain unidentified to protect the guilty!)

Classic! We're happy to fill 26/17, but no way will you be getting any nitrox! Oh, wait, 26%? That's too funny.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

Coldwater Canuck, if you are in Seattle and want to go diving and talk about training agencies and classes, I'd be happy to meet up with you. I've trained with GUE and UTD and TDI, and my husband has done tech training under NAUI, and we can talk about the differences and what might work best for you with what you want to do. Feel free to PM me.

Thanks for offering. I'm not in Seattle right now, but probably will be in a month or two (which is good because I can't get diving nearly as much as I'd like here, not because of a lack of water, just my individual situation). But I'll try and remember to send you a PM once I get back.