Holding a panicked diver down

[Tigerman]

While holding him down may be the right answer in some situations, I keep thinking assaults, unlawful restraint, and even manslaughter. Do you really think PADI will protect you?

If two people are starting a fight in a bar and the bouncers drag them to the floor and sit on them to make them not hurt eachother, is that assault or unlawful restraint? It might be two quite different enviroments and different risks involved, but the objective is the same - avoid people getting hurt..

Actually let me rephraze that - if random bystanders pull the "fighters" apart and hold them down..

 

[Tessunderwater]

Honestly, unless the diver is a close family member, I doubt I would even try to hold or slow a truly panicking diver already heading to the surface, completely because of self-preservation. (i understand that instructors may feel more responsibility). Of course if I could head off the panic, thats a different story. But FYI for all my future buddies, the most I will likely do is pray for you.

Maybe if I had a secure grip on something to ensure I wouldnt go up with them, but given the scenarios, thats not likely.

I don't think you understood what he was saying. In rescue class we are taught to judge the situation and above all not to make the rescuer a second victim. This judgment is what you take into account when faced with a diver who is panicked or starting the panicked process. Sometimes you can establish touch contact and that is enough to calm them down. However, it is a judgment call because it is difficult to calm a person in full blown flight or fight panic mode.


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[brnt999]

I don't think you understood what he was saying. In rescue class we are taught to judge the situation and above all not to make the rescuer a second victim. This judgment is what you take into account when faced with a diver who is panicked or starting the panicked process. Sometimes you can establish touch contact and that is enough to calm them down. However, it is a judgment call because it is difficult to calm a person in full blown flight or fight panic mode.


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"In rescue class we are taught to judge the situation and above all not to make the rescuer a second victim. This judgment is what you take into account when faced with a diver who is panicked or starting the panicked process."

I have seen a few people express that sentiment. I would have thought that above all you should not make the victims situation worse.

 

[The Chairman]

I was talking to another instructor a few years back. He's a great friend of mine, but I don't like the way he teaches. Anyway, he's going on and on about the rescues he's had to perform and the near misses from panic he's had to do. I was rather surprised to hear that he was talking about HIS students. Ya Rly? He's had to intervene in over a dozen instances where I've had to intervene in exactly none. What's the difference? He teaches his students on their knees with only brief periods of having to worry about their trim and buoyancy. In other words, his students are never fully in control of their diving. My students' first skill is being neutral and in control. All the other skills are easy once they have that down.

That being said, I have encountered two panicking divers while on the reef. The first lost her mask: it was tangled in her pony tail when it was kicked off by her buddy. I only needed to hold her hand to end her panic. Once I gave her the mask back, we were able to continue the dive. The other was a diver reaching into a hole for a lobster and coming out with an eel instead. That required a full bear hug and leg wrap to arrest his ascent. Since he was bleeding, we continued our ascent even doing a safety stop. He had six stitches and a cool story to tell. Somehow, that he panicked never seems to be a part of his story!

• The best panic is the one that never happens due to training and preparation.
• Simple human touch is often all that's needed. That can be holding their hand or even putting your face mask right up to theirs.
• Sometimes, you have to protect people from themselves. Each incident has to be evaluated in situ, and there are times where it's best to let the panicked diver go in order to avoid injuries.

 

[Tessunderwater]

• The best panic is the one that never happens due to training and preparation.
• Simple human touch is often all that's needed. That can be holding their hand or even putting your face mask right up to theirs.
• Sometimes, you have to protect people from themselves. Each incident has to be evaluated in situ, and there are times where it's best to let the panicked diver go in order to avoid injuries.

Yes that's what I meant earlier.

 

[brnt999]

I was talking to another instructor a few years back. He's a great friend of mine, but I don't like the way he teaches. Anyway, he's going on and on about the rescues he's had to perform and the near misses from panic he's had to do. I was rather surprised to hear that he was talking about HIS students. Ya Rly? He's had to intervene in over a dozen instances where I've had to intervene in exactly none. What's the difference? He teaches his students on their knees with only brief periods of having to worry about their trim and buoyancy. In other words, his students are never fully in control of their diving. My students' first skill is being neutral and in control. All the other skills are easy once they have that down.

That being said, I have encountered two panicking divers while on the reef. The first lost her mask: it was tangled in her pony tail when it was kicked off by her buddy. I only needed to hold her hand to end her panic. Once I gave her the mask back, we were able to continue the dive. The other was a diver reaching into a hole for a lobster and coming out with an eel instead. That required a full bear hug and leg wrap to arrest his ascent. Since he was bleeding, we continued our ascent even doing a safety stop. He had six stitches and a cool story to tell. Somehow, that he panicked never seems to be a part of his story!

• The best panic is the one that never happens due to training and preparation.
• Simple human touch is often all that's needed. That can be holding their hand or even putting your face mask right up to theirs.
• Sometimes, you have to protect people from themselves. Each incident has to be evaluated in situ, and there are times where it's best to let the panicked diver go in order to avoid injuries.

I emailed the Medical Research department of DAN just to see if the did have any numbers on rapdid ascents. They don't, but this was his suggestion:

"Panicked diver may get in a worse panic if he is held down against his/her will. I do not have the data you ask about. Anything you do with panicking diver should be mild and re-assuring, I would say, do not try to "drown" him, which would be his feeling if you try to prevent him from ascending. Rather hold him mildly and try make him understand that you will accompany him at a safe pace."

I like the idea of making it a priority to somehow-through touch, eye contact, or sound--let the diver know your there to help. I also like the idea of incrementaly increasing the the resistance to his ascent, as opposed to putting a leg lock on them.

"

 

[The Chairman]

There are a lot of variables that can only be evaluated while you are dealing with them. I can't say that my response today to the same situation would even be similar to what I did ten years ago and especially before I became an instructor. I teach in rescue that the best rescue is the one you avoid having to make. While panic is an irrational response, there are often clues that will help you identify a potential panicker and their trigger before it gets that far. As I gear up I look the other divers over to assess how they are getting along. I continue this process in the water and I often find one or two weak links that merit a more than casual look. After all, if their panic results in an accident then our diving will probably be cut short for the day. By looking out for them, I am also looking out for me.

When it comes to the eel incident, I might handle that differently today. I am always trying to learn different and more effective ways of intervention. I'm not the same diver I was and I like that progression.